1979 KZ1000 LTD B3 Help wanted - Bike will not start

Thanks guys !

So I ordered a valve compressor kit on E-bay and some Viton seals. I also watched SWest's video and a bunch of others on Youtube about removing the head, removing the valves, cleaning and lapping. Feel a lot more confident now. Read the manuals some more too.

I took of the camshaft cover, binder, camshafts, shims, buckets and exhaust and will be removing the head and the pan this week-end.

Also have two broken bolts I will try to extract, will be coating them with magic juice and I bought the reverse bits to extract them.

Curious to see what is going on but but by the general appearance of the bike when I got it, it was under maintained. Hopefully nothing bad really happened and its fixable.

Will post some pics when they are off.

OK, the head is off. Followed instructions and everything went OK.

I found a rubber damper that belonged to the intake side sprocket on the left side in cylinder #3. Its in good shape. I am not sure if it was there or if I am the one who dislodged it while pulling the head and tying the chain.

Started cleaning this morning using Gunk Engine cleaner and some foamy stuff and brass wire brushes. I cleaned both #1 and #4 pistons on the surface and around. They seem to looks good. I expected their surface to be smoother but they look like they were casted that way. The #2 and #3 cylinder are dirtier #2 being the nastiest. I can feel what I think is carbon deposit when I run my finger along the top of the cylinders.

I also cleaned the head a bit. Lots of thick deposits there. I sat the head on the exhaust side and sprayed engine cleaner in each of the intakes. No leakage. Did the same for the exhaust and no leakage either.

I need to wait for my compressor, until then I will continue to clean everything up and I am to go ahead and remove the oil pan and clean that too.

I also realize I will need new copper washers for when I re-assemble. I already have the gasket and O-rings.

What is a good product to get rid of that carbon ? I saw a few videos where they use a drill with a wire brush the buff everything out. Isn't there a risk of damaging the surfaces ?

You MUST get all the carbon out of the cylinders. If even a tiny bit will score the walls.
Steve

shrap66 wrote: OK, the head is off. Followed instructions and everything went OK.

I found a rubber damper that belonged to the intake side sprocket on the left side in cylinder #3. Its in good shape. I am not sure if it was there or if I am the one who dislodged it while pulling the head and tying the chain.

There are two of those rubber dampners on the cam chain idler sprocket. I didn't hear you mention the second one. If you don't see it, it is in the pan and you need to drop the pan and get it out. Two on the front idler, two on the rear idler. Item #7 on the partzilla exploded view.

www.partzilla.com/catalog/kawasaki/motor...ensioner-79-80-b3-b4

Only that single damper was out the others are all there. Nevertheless I am still pulling the oil pan.

SWest wrote: You MUST get all the carbon out of the cylinders. If even a tiny bit will score the walls.
Steve

Thanks Steve,

Are you saying I need to go ahead and pull the bottom ?

No but get as much out as you with a vac then rotate the engine where two of the pistons are at the top and vac again. Would be a good idea to pour diesel or tranny fluid on the pistons and vac them pulling the fine particles with it. Don't rotate the engine until most of the crap is gone.
Steve

SWest wrote: No but get as much out as you with a vac then rotate the engine where two of the pistons are at the top and vac again. Would be a good idea to pour diesel or tranny fluid on the pistons and vac them pulling the fine particles with it. Don't rotate the engine until most of the crap is gone.
Steve

I cleaned all of the deposits I could using some oil. There was a few bits of loose particles but most of it was stuck to the piston faces. Then I rotated the engine so I could clean the middle pistons. I taped over cylinder 1 and 4 and the middle to avoid letting loose particles in there. So now all of the top of the pistons are clean. I inspected the walls....

Cylinder #1 (pics 2932 and 2933) has some black deposits on the wall and I can feel it on the exhaust side with my fingers although it looks worse than it feels.
Cylinder #2 is perfectly smooth to the touch (pic 2936)
Cylinder #3 looks good too but I can feel two fine lines (pics 2938 and 2939)
Cylinder #4 has the worse of the deposits and i can feel deposits all around the cylinder wall. (pics 2934 and 2935)

Also cleaned up the head until I get my compression tool to remove the valves.

Will attack the oil pan tonight but I am concerned about cylinders #1 and 4. Will read and research about it some more.

Is my engine shot ?

Looks like condensation in the cylinders. Rings aren't seating. Valve guide seals may be leaking as well. Might be able to get away with a rough hone and new rings or a 1075/1105 kit. That's what I'll be doing when the time comes.
Steve

Engine is not shot but you will have to pull the cylinders and have them honed and checked for tolerances compared to the manual spec. If they are to far out then you can bore the cylinders, or you can buy new ones, but that's an expensive option.

If you decide to pull the cylinders, before doing any work you should consider also splitting the cases and checking the transmission and clutch plates. It's not difficult work..doesn't really require any special tools. Depending on conditions and your pocket book you will be in a better position to decide whether it's worth it to continue.

shrap66 wrote:

SWest wrote: No but get as much out as you with a vac then rotate the engine where two of the pistons are at the top and vac again. Would be a good idea to pour diesel or tranny fluid on the pistons and vac them pulling the fine particles with it. Don't rotate the engine until most of the crap is gone.
Steve

I cleaned all of the deposits I could using some oil. There was a few bits of loose particles but most of it was stuck to the piston faces. Then I rotated the engine so I could clean the middle pistons. I taped over cylinder 1 and 4 and the middle to avoid letting loose particles in there. So now all of the top of the pistons are clean. I inspected the walls....

Cylinder #1 (pics 2932 and 2933) has some black deposits on the wall and I can feel it on the exhaust side with my fingers although it looks worse than it feels.
Cylinder #2 is perfectly smooth to the touch (pic 2936)
Cylinder #3 looks good too but I can feel two fine lines (pics 2938 and 2939)
Cylinder #4 has the worse of the deposits and i can feel deposits all around the cylinder wall. (pics 2934 and 2935)

Also cleaned up the head until I get my compression tool to remove the valves.

Will attack the oil pan tonight but I am concerned about cylinders #1 and 4. Will read and research about it some more.

Is my engine shot ?

I've seen engines with condensation staining that are still in spec after a hone. In 86 I had Z2 750 sleeves bored to 1015. Even with that much material removed some staining remained. I ran it until parked in 98. In 13 I opened it up to find a bad piston ring land on #1. (too many dry starts) I had to buy all new pistons and rings because they stopped making the old style so I couldn't get just one piston. I honed the cylinders and installed them. Unfortunately I didn't replace the old valve guide seals and ran it out of oil lunching #1 piston again. This time I bought a good used block and pistons for $100 knowing the old bores were toast. I didn't like the look of the rings (one was broken) so I installed the stock pistons and ran them until I could pick up a full set of rings gaskets etc. I cleaned the oil viewing window. I lapped in new Doremi valves, installed new Viton valve guide seals and was back on the road again. By the time I got all my parts together the tranny was popping out of 2nd gear even though I had back cut the shifting dogs. I found a low mile KZ 900 tranny for $35 and picked up the whole clutch package as well. For less than $ 100 I had the whole magilla. This time I picked up a KZ 1000 main shifting fork from The Old Kaw Man for $25. I had already installed a KZ 1000 shift return spring in 13. (more windings)
If I had my druthers I would have done it all at one time but I had already spent $3500 replacing everything else. (wheel bearings, fork tubes, steering head bearings, new chrome fenders, seals, sexy engine covers, duel element turn signals, seat, on and on plus back registration $518, OUCH. By this time I had almost a new bike. To date I have 80,000+ on this bike. Where else would you get a new bike for $3500? It already had the good stuff in it like Andrews cams 33mm Miks, V/H 4-1 and I installed Liska in 13 when I first got it running in 13. (1/2 the price of stock items and last forever) The stock items fall apart with age.
This is what I started with.

In 13

New used 1015 barrels

Last year

Always adding new things. Next time a 1105 kit.
Steve

Oh boy what did I get myself into ! :laugh:

I checked the cylinders again and really the only bad one seems to be #4. When its at its lowest point toward the crank the bottom 1 inch is smooth and the rest going up I can feel it is not smooth. It tried to clean it up using WD40 and scotchbrite pads, it seems to be removing some material but it is still rough.

I noticed that the WD40 is pooling at the base on top of the piston and doesn't seem to leak into the base.

So I am thinking to pull the base as well and bring it to my Kawy guy so he can hone them, and maybe changing the rings at the same time.

I already have the valve seals on their way.

I am pulling the oil pan tomorrow morning and I will pull the clutch cover at the same time to see, how it looks. The clutch seems to work fine but it won't hurt to take a peek.

Here are pics of how the bike looked when I got it.

My goal is to get the bike running and making it look nice after that. I paid $1500 CAD for it and I am already at $4,000 CAD (Around $3,000 USD)

Probably could have found a running one for the same price I am at now. I probably screwed up but I am learning a bunch of stuff and it will be a major victory if I can get it running.