My first 440 "cafè'ish" build.

Hiiiiii..I'm back. After lots of reading and looking at pictures on the web I had the title of my thread all wrong and I appologize :pinch: I came up with a nifty word combo for bobber and cafè..Bo'fè. Onto why it's the 3rd..oh boy

Hey forum, been a crazy past 3 months up until the Monday before the DGR ride last month. Normal routine getting ready to ride to the shop. I always get my bike to level ground then look into the sight glass and even lean it over to the right for a few secs to get oil over to the pump before starting...always! Then after the idle lowers its back on the side stand I have my cig and gear up. Long story short..2 miles from work, ROD KNOCK!!! and the craziest part about it was the location. Same spot on the freeway as the last two. Like no joke! It's gotta be the Bermuda straight of juju for me there? I was so PISSED! When I got to the back of the shop, it really to a lot of me to keep from just kicking the bike over or grabbing the largest hammer out the box. It really takes A lotof BS to rile me up to the point of "I've had it". So instead, I regretfully took it out on my Arai helmet Didnt know it could bounce that high? Im glad I have another helmet hanging on my wall. A week went by before I got back into missing my Kz, so now it's all torn down.

I've gotta figure out why this keeps happening every 3.5 months? It's not consistent to one side? So leaves me to question clearance, oil gals, pump, pressure relief valve, oil brand, oil contamination..? and whatever else I didn't list? I've plasti-gage the clearance over and over to make sure it was within tolerance of the FSM. Ran high flash solvent through all the oiling gals on the case, crank, balancer dealio and head. All flowed like a morning piss?
Going backwards real fast before this happened, I started hearing an odd like metal rattle almost like ping or valves needing an adjustment. Checked the valve clearance and those were spot on, Everything was good behind the pickup cover. Now I was freaking and did more reading. Aside from cleaning out the oil pressure relief valve, I've never did anything else to it. I removed the stock oil press switch and replaced it with a 160psi gauge (all I had at that time) until a 100 came in. Judging by the FSM as what the gauge should be reading at cold start, warm up, operating temp and riding, the valve seemed to be doing its job well. Now I was out of ideas but then thought that maybe the inside baffling of the muffler I built was giving out from cold/hot cycles, so I built another from scratch but now it's 100% rebuildable! Did the baffling different and added some stainless mesh packing to quiet it down. First ride with it and Oh my! I can hear everything! except that ping/knock/metal noise cause that was exactly the problem. My exhaust was the culprit because of the way I had a resonator placed in there.
Now it's parts hunting time..again....again. I went on ahead and got yet another crank with rods attached (if you're wondering where they're all going, it's me )that will get plasti-gage'd when the time comes. This time around the oil pump has a lot of slop when you grab the gear and give it a wiggle. The rotary side looked just as it did the very first time I've seen it and actually had a very minimal amount of bearing leftovers in it compared to then. Went to the link provided (Thanks guys) in my post in the wanted section, but both listed the pump on BO. But now that I had a PN, I found one in UK for $106 +shipping. New oil filter cover bolt an spring, strainer screen and gasket set from Z1 should be here mid week. Now I'm in the cleaning process. After any steel type part gets cleaned, it goes into a bag with oil to prevent rust. Just broke one of the screws that hold the windage tray on the lower case and an allen plug for an oil passage on the side is stripped so that needs drilling too.
Figured since I've got the bike back down to a frame, time for the twin rotor upgrade, except I went the harder route and going bigger by using rotors and calipers from a 95 Zx11. Need to spin adapters/spacers on the lathe for the rotors as well as spacers to center the hub and machine new carries for the cals. One big thing I didn't consider was the 17mm front axle diameter of the 650 hub and my 15mm axle and forks. Looks like I still have lots of meat left to drill out the forks to 17mm. Then lace the 650 hub to my 400 ring with shiny new spokes. I'll be posting pics, good and bad in the next few days..

Next addition I was pondering since the case was split was adding a kick start. I've searched the database here as well as Google but didn't get any concrete answers. Aside from the obvious need for a 400s cover and the complete ratcheting mechanism, is it essentially a drop in deal and make sure all engages/disengages as it should?

thanks again forum!

ed

man that sucks. This is a far out though but are you sure your cases are matched? Could some PO rebuilt the engine and gotten two different sets and made one? I might be inclined to grab a whole new motor since they are so cheap and start over from scratch.

As for adding a kick start to a 440.
You can use the gears etc. out of a '77 and earlier 400. The tooth count is the same between the 400 and 440 first gear.
There is some machining required. If memory serves me right the wider first gear of the 400 5 speed
has to be narrowed to fit the 440s 6 speed box. The 400s count shaft first gear that you will use has the same
tooth count but is cut differently. While riding it can be barely felt if you know what you are looking for
but has yet to cause any problem on my bike. The other option , which is preferred is to use the '78/'79
400 parts. Those two years the 400 was redesigned with a 6 speed and was later bored out to a 440.
The one thing that will be needed either way is the later 400s clutch cover. The early 400s cover will bolt up to a 440
except for one bolt, the one under the ignition cover. Two other options on the cover could be to relocate the one bolt hole,
the least desirable. The other is to machine the 440 cover as all the bosses are sill cast in the cover.


.

I_Tig_in_piece wrote:

650ed wrote: If you had a 72 mph speed wobble something is still wrong with the bike and the damper is only masking the problem. I guarantee you that the bike didn't have a speed wobble when it left the showroom floor. #1 suspect would be tires, but bad shocks; worn swing arm bushings; bad steering stem bearings; wheel bearings; untrue rim; etc. are also possibilities. I highly recommend you identify and correct the problem. My KZ650 had a wobble at 90 mph and after replacing all bearings, bushings, shocks, etc. it turned out to be a bad tire (Michelin Macadam) even though both tires looked perfect. After replacing the tires the bike is now as solid as a rock up to top speed (120 mph). Ed

Before the first wobble, all the items you mentioned had maybe 400 miles on them from new. AB bearings everywhere except the swinger which is a NOS set. I trued the wheels myself then had them OK'd by a few buddies at Trophys. Followed the directions on kz400.com to the T to rebuild and fill the forks. I pressed the new top and bottom AB races on but I didn't re-torque the stem after putting some miles on them.

My Z1B with stock forks and reproduction OEM shocks would weave above 80mph. Not headshake, but a whole bike weave. I installed a set of ZRX shocks which were plusher and a touch longer and the weave has disappeared. With these old bikes you have to pay attention to setup. You can't just slap suspension on (no matter what it is) and call it done. Some good info in this video.

Far as I'm concerned Vic, my case is the mated pair since birth. I might get hell for saying this but I'm still using the main bearings since even before I owned the bike. They looked flawless the first and second time I've seen them. Even this time around theyre still usable IMO, just not sure if the new (old) crank will pass the clearance test. I got lucky with the last crank.

Nebs, thanks for that info! I'm a little confused as which gearset and/or model to use but if I read your post a couple more times I think I'll get it figured out, but that's the kind of info that was definitely not mentioned in the 2 threads I came across in regards to a kickstart. I saw a complete assembly as well as a right cover the other night on fleabay than I spontaneously bought for under $60 shipped.

Next thing I might need to hunt down is a pulser pickup coil. Had a fight with screws holding it down. Tried the special + bit first, stripped the heads, little bit of heat and PB with a small stout pair of pliers, no budge and that's when the black wire on the pickup got a bit of a tug. The sheathing pulled out of the sensor to expose the wire some but I don't think it got ripped out? I don't want that to be a cause from getting the bike started when the time comes.

Sorry to hear about the motor troubles.

The wire sheathing pulling out of the pickup body is quite common. I've seen many like that and they continue to work fine (as long as the wire itself didn't break, obviously), but prob don't want to get it wet.

Have a few pics of very slow progress, but progress none the less.

what my bike currently looks like..



The bad bearing. I got the clearance pretty well on the right shells?


Mock up of the front brake upgrade.

Now that I had all the parts In front of me I might postpone this mod till a future date? A lot of machining off the back side of the cals and the carrier bosses on the forks is gonna be needed to get the clearance between the cals and spokes.
.
I'm sure I can get it all working properly and safely but it'll mostly be an aesthetics thing which I was aware of before starting. It sure would look damn sexy though

Before this episode of rod knock.


Had to put the old mag in place out back so I can remount a new rear tire.



Need an opinion with this? Is the indent from the auto adjuster normally that big?



Some random shop pics..
Prototype invisible car chassis.. :whistle:



Oil less turbocharger. Has a zirc fitting to pump grease into it every time you do an oil change.



Porsche GT1 racecar.

My 5" slugs came in today for rotor spacers. I might as well do the brakes and take advantage of still having new lathe bits on hand.
During my ebay browsing earlier, saw this rotor labled as a KZ650H? I like the pattern in the "hat section"


Any ideas or what not for the uneven pattern of factory holes. Balancing thing maybe?
my rotor at the bottom to compare. Above pic was borrowed from google


Makes total sense for the harmonics sake, but the harmonics couldn't be within the same frequency for XX amount of rotors to have the same pattern could it? I mean I could be totally wrong..

Your project is coming along well.


As far as the drill pattern, notice the one set of only two holes.
These two holes are spaced off the rows of three, to sweep the pads on a different line, for better wear and to help clear the pads of dirt, is my theory.
if all rows had three holes, the pads would show wear in similar lines.

There's probably a harmonics element to the asymmetrical spacing as well.

Mine are quiet, some are not.
Steve

The first disk you posted with the swirly pattern carrier and a 6 bolt pattern is definitely not for a kz650h

If you don't want to do both sides for brakes I'm sure a single disk setup would be plenty of brake for that little 440. I had to mill material off the forks to get the calipers to not hit the spokes on a brake setup i'm currently working on for my twin. Was pretty easy actually.