While I am waiting for parts and cash..
Here is a little video my buddy Dave made of a ride we did last spring on the Playa in Nevada...

Well, I have a 79 and an 80 LTD which I feel handle equally well. Never had any issues of quick steering but on windy days trying to head in to corners just about all my nerves and balls were needed on the 79. I know I had a worn steering bearing and possibly swing arm bearings worn that were replaced. But on my 80 I could feel the forks flex after I rode my rexes with reckless abandon. After riding the Rex I realized just how much my kz's were flexing around aggressive corners. Now those bikes feel like they could just fall down going around corners. For big as those pigs are they handle with effortless aplomb in comparison to my LTD's. I have yet to ride my Z1r. It's killing me now that I had one opportunity with the weather and was advised against it and figured since it was new to me it might not be a good idea to ride it for three hours not knowing the bike and if there was any issues that needed tending to.
I remember that I would go out on a 3-400 mile day and would only feel comfortable taking hard corners after a few beers and the WFO throttle approach to corners. I guess throttling through the corners really made the bike set and stay the line as opposed to the normal way of riding.

dohc wrote:

531blackbanshee wrote: i can tell you that my 1980 z1r is very noticeably heavier to stand up off the kickstand and push around the shop than any of the 78 z1r's that i own.

The claimed dry weight went up by 9 lbs, (542 to 551), and the curb weight went up by 11 (bigger tank?).

I'm surprised this small change (1.7%) would make the bike feel noticeably heavier, but maybe the weight/CG moved higher. The bigger tank would certainly move it up (assuming the tank was full).

I can say that the stubby little lever arm on the '78 center stand makes the bike insanely difficult to get on the stand. I'm assuming the longer arm on the '80 helped some with this.

Here is my question for the '80 owners. The low speed handling of the '78 is spooky, say when turning while slowly pulling out of a parking space or driveway. It often feels like it's going to fall flat on it's side, as if the steering head were a bit stuck and the front end wasn't tracking with the turn. Both of the '78 Z1Rs I've ridden felt exactly the same in this respect (even with new steering head bearings). Does the '80 also feel this way? Did all of the Z1/1000s feel this way?

Wow, that is exactly the thoughts I had going through my mind taken to the next level. THANKS.
This helps me quite a bit.

dohc wrote:

saxjonz wrote: I want to learn EVERYTHING about this bike. I have fallen for it in a hard way.

I know how you feel... but let me just start off by saying you asked for this....

Before I start, if you really want to know everything buy this book:
www.amazon.com/Kawasaki-Z1000-Z1-R-Crowo...assics/dp/184797144X

First, production numbers: Claimed '78 production is 17,392 complete bikes, while '80 is 3,308 bikes.

As for the frame, the steering head angle is given as 26 deg. for both '78 and '80, but the trail increased from 85mm to 101mm. My guess is the basic frame geometry was not changed, with the extra trail coming from the larger front wheel and a different offset in the triple clamps (unique part numbers for the clamps). More trail would make the bike steer more slowly, which should feel more stable at speed.

Marketing claimed the frame was updated to use double wall tubing, but the '78 has external bracing on the down tubes that I would call double wall tubing so I don't know what they added to the '80. Anyone else know?

The marketing also claims they shortened the swingarm by 1/2". However, they changed the drive sprockets from 15/33 to 15/35, but with the same chain length (92). Based on a web calculator, this rear sprocket change would shorten the wheelbase by 0.4", so maybe that's where this figure came from.

The springs in the rear shocks were softened (single rate spring instead of dual-rate). Apparently people complained that the 78 was too stiff. It looks like they also changed the front forks to use 10W oil instead of 15W, but it looks like they also changed the internal damping rod so the net effect is not exactly clear. But it looks like the goal was to make the ride softer overall.

The brake rotors got smaller in 80 (290mm to 250mm) with a new irregular drill pattern (to reduce noise apparently), but the front caliper pistons are larger diameter (giving more mechanical advantage) and the pistons have heat insulators so they could install sintered metal pads. The rear caliper also got insulated pistons and sintered pads. Claimed braking distance was reduced from 12.5m to 11m at a speed of 50 kph.

The rear master cylinder was changed to have a remote reservoir, along with the brake pedal and pushrod. The new MC still has the same piston diameter though. I believe the 80 Z1R had the same rear master cylinder and pedal as all other 79 and 80 KZ1000 models, while the '78 Z1R rear MC/pedal is unique.

Other details:
-Mk2 engine (many changes)
-Larger fuel tank, new fill cap
-revised seat cover (puffy cross bands)
-different front fender due to larger front wheel
-USA speedo max = 85
-4-1 exhaust changed to 4-2
-new side cover badge
-accelerator pump added to carbs (still 28mm)
-transistorized ignition replaced points
-totally different wiring harness (no central connector panel)

And now I'm really wasting your time.... the center stand lever was changed due to the left side exhaust. The headlight mounting ring was changed (no idea why). The fork ears were beefed up (even though the part number didn't change) by filling in solid what had been a circular cutout.

I'll stop now.

saxjonz wrote: I want to learn EVERYTHING about this bike. I have fallen for it in a hard way.

I know how you feel... but let me just start off by saying you asked for this....

Before I start, if you really want to know everything buy this book:
www.amazon.com/Kawasaki-Z1000-Z1-R-Crowo...assics/dp/184797144X

First, production numbers: Claimed '78 production is 17,392 complete bikes, while '80 is 3,308 bikes.

As for the frame, the steering head angle is given as 26 deg. for both '78 and '80, but the trail increased from 85mm to 101mm. My guess is the basic frame geometry was not changed, with the extra trail coming from the larger front wheel and a different offset in the triple clamps (unique part numbers for the clamps). More trail would make the bike steer more slowly, which should feel more stable at speed.

Marketing claimed the frame was updated to use double wall tubing, but the '78 has external bracing on the down tubes that I would call double wall tubing so I don't know what they added to the '80. Anyone else know?

The marketing also claims they shortened the swingarm by 1/2". However, they changed the drive sprockets from 15/33 to 15/35, but with the same chain length (92). Based on a web calculator, this rear sprocket change would shorten the wheelbase by 0.4", so maybe that's where this figure came from.

The springs in the rear shocks were softened (single rate spring instead of dual-rate). Apparently people complained that the 78 was too stiff. It looks like they also changed the front forks to use 10W oil instead of 15W, but it looks like they also changed the internal damping rod so the net effect is not exactly clear. But it looks like the goal was to make the ride softer overall.

The brake rotors got smaller in 80 (290mm to 250mm) with a new irregular drill pattern (to reduce noise apparently), but the front caliper pistons are larger diameter (giving more mechanical advantage) and the pistons have heat insulators so they could install sintered metal pads. The rear caliper also got insulated pistons and sintered pads. Claimed braking distance was reduced from 12.5m to 11m at a speed of 50 kph.

The rear master cylinder was changed to have a remote reservoir, along with the brake pedal and pushrod. The new MC still has the same piston diameter though. I believe the 80 Z1R had the same rear master cylinder and pedal as all other 79 and 80 KZ1000 models, while the '78 Z1R rear MC/pedal is unique.

Other details:
-Mk2 engine (many changes)
-Larger fuel tank, new fill cap
-revised seat cover (puffy cross bands)
-different front fender due to larger front wheel
-USA speedo max = 85
-4-1 exhaust changed to 4-2
-new side cover badge
-accelerator pump added to carbs (still 28mm)
-transistorized ignition replaced points
-totally different wiring harness (no central connector panel)

And now I'm really wasting your time.... the center stand lever was changed due to the left side exhaust. The headlight mounting ring was changed (no idea why). The fork ears were beefed up (even though the part number didn't change) by filling in solid what had been a circular cutout.

I'll stop now.

StreetfighterKz wrote: Sorry to see your bike in such sad shape. Just in case you didn't know, the front end is either a Gsxr750W ('94-95) or a Gsxr1100 which stopped being made in 1998. And the swingarm is a Gs1100E item with a Gsxr7500/1100 rim.

Later, Doug

Doug thank you for the information I did not know I don't know how you know all that information just by looking at them. I bought the front and the two wheels from a salvage yard was on a drag bike project. they told me they were 99 forks I didn't know how to identify them. the swingarm I knew about I bought that separately off of ebay a few months ago. Again thanks for the information though. unfortunately that takes me out of the AllBalls bearing swap opportunity.

Sorry to see your bike in such sad shape. Just in case you didn't know, the front end is either a Gsxr750W ('94-95) or a Gsxr1100 which stopped being made in 1998. And the swingarm is a Gs1100E item with a Gsxr7500/1100 rim.

Later, Doug

Steve

As Leon(531Blackbanshee) had advised me towards the Hayabusa swingarm I decided to go that route and it was realy quite simple. I had already decided to keep the rear twin shocks which made it an easier swap as I was not needing to modify the frame, only welded on the Z1 shock mounts onto the swingarm. Some spacers and bushing was required for fitting the swingarm. I used the standard KZ swingarm bolt with bushing to match the ID of the swingarm.

The front end swap was very simple, took a couple of hours at most. All Balls do conversion bearing kits, you list the donor bike and the frame you are coupling to and they send you the appropriate stem bearings. The Busa complete front end simply bolted onto the KZ frame with the new bearings. The stem seemed slightly shorter so I had to machine down the top bolt to get it to look right but all in all this was the simplest part of my conversion. I would say having the complete front end from the donor bike including, wheel calipers rotors etc all together made it easier. I would not have liked to be trying to match wheels brakes etc.

Wow. Been a little too long, I think. Well, for the moment I have some extra free time as I've been laid off from the day job, and am just putting in some extra night shifts at what was the part time job before. (Slinging pints at the local pub.....)

In any case, while it may be less than perfect being mainly unemployed just before Christmas, it does on the other hand mean I've been putting in hours a day in the woodshop and working on the bike.

A few photos to show some of the progress so far, and a whole bunch more to come soon.





Frame stripped as least as far as I was able with chemical stripper, wire wheels etc.... I am never doing that by hand again. It would be worth the money to buy a sandblaster and do it in an afternoon. Soooo many hours to get it that far. Still, rewarding work, and I certainly learned something. Frame and swingarm are out for semi-flat powdercoat right now. Should be back in a couple of weeks.

Just an idea of where things were a few months ago.....



And finally, a trick for any Canadians out there who are struggling to remove swingarm bearing outer races. My $2 removal kit. (literally!)





So, it may be cheaper to go to the store and get some heavy washers like most people have done, however, when it is a really crappy December afternoon, and a trip to the nearest hardware store is going to take longer than the value of two coins, this works a treat. After heat cycling the bearing races (BFH method failed, and actually bent both coins before heating the races!) A loonie fits pretty much perfectly across the bearings on the inside.

Well, back to the shop for part of the afternoon it would seem. As I said, more to come. Thanks everyone for the support, and my apologies for taking so damned long to get back to it!

Jonny

I am starting a cafe project on a 1978 KZ200. It is for my daughter who is turning 16 in March and will be her first bike. I am new to this site and new to building (which is why I am here). I picked up the bike for $750, it is 100% stock, yet came with a paint job that makes returning it to stock (which my daughter would appreciate) less attractive than striping it down into a cafe racer (which is more fun for me and since I am not an experienced builder it wouldn't be my most expensive mistake...but then again getting married to my now ex-wife will always top that). Later as I share all I will end up doing to this bike you will probably all be shaking your heads as to why I would put such work into a 200cc bike...and i am shaking my head with you all, my best answer right now, because when I was looking for a bike for her there weren't any 400 to 600cc bikes around in the small town I am from and I didn't want to haul anything.

I bought the bike this past summer and other than messing with the carb, jetting, and fouling a few spark plugs, (I think there was some water or bad gas) I have it running relatively decently. However in Flagstaff, AZ at about 7500 ft and in the cold I don't think I am getting the most power out of it. I think it has the stock jets on it.



Please feel free to make any suggestions on all of these ideas, your knowledge is very welcome

These are my initial thoughts on the project:
1) ditch the side covers and the intake box and put a pod filter on the carb, which I imagine will require me to jet the carb differently; any suggestions on pod filter and jetting kits?

2) make a new battery box that will hold the be centered and hanging from the top of the frame, probably fabricate this, but still try to keep the center of the bike clean. I have thought about batteryless, but not sure if my daughter would appreciate kickstarting the bike all the time.

3) pull all the fenders, I want to make or find a good mini fender for the front and a shorter rear fender for the back with a custom tail light and indicators and maybe even providing a small storage area accessible under the seat.

4) I would love to find a rearset kit that would work well for this bike, this may be a step 2 after she gets more used to riding, I do want to cut the bracket for the driver pegs off the frame something bad, any suggestions as to good bolt on rearsets?

5) I want to keep the original wheels, paint the hubs and spokes and polish the chrome on the rims.

6) the tires i would like to put on the bike will be the Kenda K761 Dual Sport, 110/80-18 front, 120/90/17 on the rear, I have to double check to see that the stock rims will hold these, I am pretty sure that the front will fit without the fender, but not sure about the rear. I am also wondering if a 1978 KZ650 or KZ750 swing arm would bolt right on the KZ200 frame, and by doing so give enough room for this rear tire; the width of the frame where the KZ200 swing arm bolts on is 8 1/4 inches, I am also worried about the torque link for the rear break rubbing on the wider tire, if just that I am wondering about modifying that.

7) ditch the old seat and fab a new one that is thinner more cafe, matched to the frame, rising some in the back and locking somewhere towards the back with a helmet lock.

I would like to lower the bike some as my daughter isn't too tall, with the front I think it would look rad if the fork tubes stuck out just far enough for some clip-ons.

9) I would like to ditch the tach, and center mount the speedo and mount the dummy lights somewhere else like
where the handlebar holders were, I saw this on a KZ cafe racer on here.

10) maybe a new headlight and maybe some aftermarket front blinkers, but I would rather not have any on the front, definitely new headlight brackets as this bike was dropped once and one of the brackets are bent causing the headlight to sit off center.

11) Naturally I am going to paint everything, I will check into the cost of powder coating the frame as opposed to painting it will an epoxy myself. I want the lower forks, frame, and most of the engine black, I will try to polish many of the covers and caps to see if I can get a good two tone thing going on the engine. I would rather just polish the gas tank than paint it, but my daughter loves the orange copper color it is. I may paint just the muffler and wrap the pipes or paint both.

12)I am not going to rebuild the engine, mostly because I am not a skilled mechanic, but really it is running fine. There is a small oil leak on the front side between the head and cylinder, so I will probably replace the head gasket.

In all I hope to make a really cool looking custom cafe that is light and not too fast for my daughter, for her to use to get to and from school in style and occasionally cruise around with her dad, but most importantly to always be the kind of lady that would ride along side some guy rather than on the back of his bike.

Agreed. Looking at your diagram it doesn't look to me like the swingarm should be pinched too tight. As long as there's plenty of grease between the swingarm tube and the end caps (and in the bearings) and you can move the swingarm up and down without struggling things might loosen up a little as the bike is ridden. Ed