what are 'Bad Igniter' symptoms?

Motor Head wrote:

I was hoping for someway without the external link to another web site account. I've read about some command lines you can use, I've tried but DOS is not my thing, and so far KZR rejects the commands.
Do any riding Today on the bike? Still think you need the Morgan Carb Tune?

Yep, I am waiting for the Morgan to arrive, and I think I'm going to find the throttle valves are out of sync. Through all the running issues, the one remaining very minor issue is -- I *know* what a good throttle roll-on-from-idle feels like and my bike is not there.

If one throttle valve is open more than the others, that will tend to increase the revs on the bike.

Once the engine starts up, the bike will seek a steady idle RPM. But if one throttle valve is open more than the others, that idle RPM will rise and more air will be sucked in past the air flow sensor. The computer responds by increasing fuel flow for a moment.

But the sensor switch for throttle position tells the computer 'no the throttle is not open'.

So the computer's getting 'mixed signals' (no pun intended) from the air flow sensor and throttle position switch.

So an out-of-sync set of throttle valves might explain why I have the following symptoms:

1) the idle RPM will not reach a steady-state RPM -- it goes up and down by a few hundred RPMs, not real noticeable, but if you like things to be neat, orderly and organized, it will distract you.

2) and the bike does *not* have a smooth throttle roll-on from idle to running in gear.

Now let me say this, probably most riders would not bother with a 'slightly oscillating' idle condition of a few hundred RPMs up-and-down. Furthermore, a lot of riders wouldn't worry the uneven-ness of throttle roll-on from idle. I'm just being nit-picky here with the idling.

The bike has slightly over 20k miles and based on all the obvious signs that the prior owner was all over this bike's components trying to solve the rough running problem, it would not surprise me if the 20k+ mileage and/or earlier repair efforts have drifted the throttle body sync a bit.

When the Morgan shows up, keep us advised on the progress. I only know that "IF" everything else is good, then there is an Idle Mixture adjustment. On the Airflow Sensor/ Flapper box, there is a small plug, about 12mm in dia, near the front boot connection/ top/ right side corner. This was discussed before, if you decide to play with it, you will most likely have to drill a small hole in the plug, then put a self taping screw in for pulling out with pliers. Once the plug is removed I would turn it in to its seat, gently, and then having counted those turns in, write that down for returning it there if need be. You can richen the mixture a bit, if I remember counter clockwise/ out is rich. But I'm still wondering 2 other things first, 1- the fuel pressure, and 2 the Injector spray pattern. If the injectors are not giving a good delivery of atomized fuel, you will get first and foremost Idle issues. But this could also cause BOG under accel, especially if fuel pressure is low.
Me I love fuel injection, but I have yet to have it on a Motorcycle. I started working on those fuel systems way back in the early 70's.
So I'm a bit jealous of you and that Beautiful bike!!!

Tried running any fuel injection cleaner like Seafoam or Berryman's B-12? Even Marvel Mystery Oil can help for clogged injectors.

Another change if it were me, would be to get new ignition coils and sparkplug wires as even when new, the stock coils were weak, add heat, vibration and age and the spark may be intermittent....

No eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationI bought a set like this also used for my LTD,
cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1981-honda-cb650...&hash=item3cb3f29e27

Even though I could not fault the KZ coils. Did make quite a difference, also bought an Accel coil pack for my 4.0 V6.

MFolks wrote:

Tried running any fuel injection cleaner like Seafoam or Berryman's B-12? Even Marvel Mystery Oil can help for clogged injectors.

Another change if it were me, would be to get new ignition coils and sparkplug wires as even when new, the stock coils were weak, add heat, vibration and age and the spark may be intermittent....

Actually the bike has always run really strong, as long as I kept her revved up high.
Now that the 'running below 3000 rpm' is smooth, this bike is *much* easier for me to hold on to. It has so much power that riding it revved up like I had to all the time, where most of the power is made, reminded me of my Kaw triple with the front end wanting to come up.

Now, since I'm riding it *normally* and accelerating from idle, it is no longer 'hey theres a maniac on a big motorcycle' situation, the Kerker really chimes in when she come on the power. Got peoples attention. Now we're back to normal riding.

I'm just over 50 and I don't ride much on the pipe anymore. Cruising, just cruising, put on the power now and then for some fun but not all the time crazy maniac.

I want that idle to be perfect. I'm going to check throttle sync and then go from there working through the remainder of my list of things to check.

There's only one thing left after I sort out the idle -- I need to get rid of the couch that's on the back of the bike.

My Clymer book shows the computer *in the tail section* and not inside the seat. The computer cable is plenty long enough to fit it in the tailpiece.

So the G1 Classic that they had for the writing of the Clymer book had an LTD seat, and had the LTD/KZ tailpiece and fender, and they put the computer in the tailpiece. (The G1 "z1 Classic" bike is just a kz1000 LTD with FI and a massive seat.)

Right now there are kids on the side of the road pointing at me, "Look maw theres an old man on a sickle. Look at that couch."

If you recall the Beverly Hillbillies when they show the family's truck at the start of the show, with couch in the back, that's where I'm at. BIGOLE COUCH.

I already have an LTD seat and plastic tail piece.

Some fuel injector services:
www.witchhunter.com
www.injectorrx.com/services.html
www.injector-rehab.com/

MFolks wrote:

Some fuel injector services:
www.witchhunter.com
www.injectorrx.com/services.html
www.injector-rehab.com/

Okay thanks for that, I have run through a 3-full-gas-tanks treatment system of Fuel Injector cleanout solution, you fill up the gas tank and pour in 1/3 of the treatment. I've run through 3 gas tanks and have used up all the injector cleaner now.

What is the likelihood that after only 20xxx miles my injectors would require more than just a cleaning, if that?
The Clymer manual has no 'Scheduled Maintenance' mention for the injectors, although it does tell how often to change the fuel filter (every 6000 miles), and high-pressure fuel lines (every 2 years).

When you bought the bike, was there fuel in the tank and lines? If I remember correctly, there is a very small mesh filter inside the inlet port of the injectors designed to trap small particles.

If the tank was rusty,rust may be clogging the pintle of the injector.

Removing,cleaning and re-installing this mesh might be all you'll need at this point.

Here are some links to a few U-Tube Vids that will show you what would be done at an Injector service facility.
There are lot more vids there and of course some home remedies.
I strongly suggest at least checking them yourself for spray pattern, and possibly delivery volume, but you would have to get some Beret tubes or other graduated measuring implements.

Shows the cleaning process where the injector is fired many times a second, pulling the cleaning fluid backwards up through the body, the filter baskets are out at this point.

Shows the testing done for pattern and volume, before cleaning.

Shows the after cleaning test, although it is a short clip.

Shows how to "Rebuild".

Have a look, and maybe you'll gain some insight.

Motor Head wrote:

Here are some links to a few U-Tube Vids that will show you what would be done at an Injector service facility.
There are lot more vids there and of course some home remedies.
I strongly suggest at least checking them yourself for spray pattern, and possibly delivery volume, but you would have to get some Beret tubes or other graduated measuring implements.

Shows the cleaning process where the injector is fired many times a second, pulling the cleaning fluid backwards up through the body, the filter baskets are out at this point.

Shows the testing done for pattern and volume, before cleaning.

Shows the after cleaning test, although it is a short clip.

Shows how to "Rebuild".

Have a look, and maybe you'll gain some insight.

Heckfire, the before-and-after photos make me want to do it anyways! What a difference. Thanks MH.

Mfolks thanks for the filter info -- yes there was old gas in the bike. The tank liner is in really good shape, either it holds up well by nature or it was done not long before the prior owner parked it. No rust at all in the gas tank. And when I pulled the petcock off earlier, it was near spotless. I took the petcock handle off too (one screw at the top then pull the lever out) and the insides were clean too.

I drained the old gas out and run it through my lawn mower, no problem. Smelled funny but the lawn mower is not picky. The old stuff in the tank still smelled much more like gas and not varnish.

I have yet to install the new fuel filter and will do that and clean the injector filters at the same time. Still waiting for the Morgan carb sync tool to come in! I ordered it online on January 12, 2011.

This 1 place that could do them, but in a big area like where you live there would be lots of shops to take them to if so inclined.
www.witchhunter.com/

MFolks wrote:

I don't think anyone has touched on this possibility, but look at this:

Ohm Checking Pickup(Pulsing) Coils

The pickup coils on the Kawasaki’s with the factory supplied electronic ignition can sometimes fail or become intermittent due to heat and vibration.

1.Trace back from where the pick up coils are mounted,(under a right side CD sized cover) locate and disconnect a small 4 pin connector. Using a multi-meter set on OHMS and range of 2K, check between the BLUE and BLACK wires(#1 and #4 sparkplug wires) for between 360-540 OHMS.

2.For #2 and #3 sparkplugs the wire colors will be YELLOW and RED, again 360-540 OHMS.

3.If the pickup coils are suspect of failing due to heat, they can be stressed using a hair dryer without the need of the engine running.

4.A replacement set of pickup coils might be obtained from a dealer who serviced the police Kawasaki’s.

5. If replacement pickup coils are not available, your next choice would be to order a Dyna “S” electronic ignition system from www.z1enterprises.com It replaces the IC igniter with a smaller module located where the mechanical ignition advancer was mounted.

6. Checking with Kawasaki.com website has determined that the Pick up(pulsing) coils are available . The pulsing coil # is 59026-1133 and replaces the older # 1002, 1012 which were used from the MKII motors until the 2005 P24.

7.Check the small 4 pin connector that the pickup coils connect to for corrosion/loose pins too.

Hi guys! new member and came across this thread looking for answers to my probs. 81 kz550a just bought for 150 bucks and not running. PO said he thinks its the igniter box. he said coils ohm out fine and he not getting fire to the coils. i wanna check the pickup coils and igniter. i havent started my own diagnosis yet i just bought battery and put acid in and got it charging so just wanted to know where to start when get battery ready. so my ?'s are when checking the coil as in the quote does it matter what position the little thing that triggers the pickup coils is in when you ohm it? and what would be a good way to check the igniter? thanks for your input!!!