what are 'Bad Igniter' symptoms?

newOld_kz1000 wrote:

...I'd like to adjust the timing so that the 'T' mark lines up with that vertical line, not to the left of it....

Bad Idea! :pinch:

Should ignore T mark for purposes of ignition timing.

Good Fortune!

as to the Red/ White wire having to be unplugged first. That would be the main Battery positive feed. I think all Systems would have a similar warning, but now it is written as, Disconnect the Battery. Someone could just as easily use a test light back probing and get a, say bad Injector driver, or burn out something else. But then it is dead and will not run/ misses constantly. For intermittent problems, it still could be a component on the board suffering from Heat exhaustion, or a bad solder joint. Keep checking the externals, rule out the Ignition, then on to where trouble can be seen, that rust could have caused injector issues, ect.
In the end maybe the carb conversion is what is needed. Spring is a while off here, but maybe you can ride year round?

I found the throttle switch might be 'iffy.'


The throttle switch is at the left outside of throttle body #1.

Here are front/back and connector photos:

OUTER SIDE OF THROTTLE SWITCH


INNER SIDE OF THROTTLE SWITCH -- NOTE THE 1/2 MOON INSIDE THE HOLE THERE


CONNECTOR at bottom of THROTTLE SWITCH



There is 1/2 moon-shaped hole in the inside of the switch -- a rotating shaft fits in there.

That shaft rotates as you open/close the throttle.

The reading you take on the 2 sides of the switch have to be either OPEN (infinite ohms) or SHORT (zero ohms).

The left side of the switch reads correctly -- zero ohms when the throttle is closed (you put your ohmmeter on the 2 left pins and note the ohms).

However the right side of the switch *should* read zero ohms when the throttle is open -- and it is NEVER zero. It is normally reading 175 +/- ohms, and if I play around with the 1/2 moon rotation I got it as low as 45 ohms just ONE TIME after playing with the 1/2 moon for 5 minutes.

So I don't know how sensitive the computer is but this switch tells the computer "throttle is open" or "throttle is closed."

The Clymer manual says "if the switch does not read zero or infinite ohms as the throttle is open/closed, discard it and install a new switch."

So I go to Kawasaki today to pick up my fuel filter for this bike which finally came in - the throttle switch has been DISCONTINUED by Kawasaki.

This might explain the poor running. The left two pins of the switch is fine:
- at closed throttle, 0 ohms
- at open throttle, infinite ohms

So the computer thinks, "Okay I'm getting the straight scoop from the left side of the throttle switch, let's have a look at the two right pins."

The right two pins on the throttle switch connector:
- at closed throttle = infinite ohms
- at open throttle -- usually 175 ohms, intermittently falls as low as 45 ohms


Funny that a simply on/off switch might prevent the bike from running.

I tried to remove the cover and it won't come easy -- I thought "maybe the variable resistor inside is dirty" so I thought I'd open it up and clean it. If I break it during the course of trying to get the cover off, this bike may never run again.

Well I am both glad to here you think you may have found the problem, and also sorry about the NLA status on a new part from Kawasaki.
27004-1006
SWITCH ASSY,THROTTLE
Is what you need as was listed as around $65-70.
I didn't find anything on Fleebay, or the Google search. But I can tell you to look at the part # on the unit, maybe this can help. As that switch would not be just for Kawasaki. There are other vehicles that use this system, I know here I go again, but its true. A trip to the CAR wreckers may find what you want. I say some Pictures on the web for a switch from 86-90 Saab that looked real close. But there would be several worth looking at. Even if the connector has a different shape, as long as it is 4 wires, and the switch function is the same, with the same size D shaft hole. You could always fab a bit of metal for mounting. If you break that cover, oh well. I would get it off and see if there is anything that can be done. You can always glue the cover back. From the looks of that picture, you can see the 2 tabs from the back. Holding as you did, with the back and #'s up, look there are two tabs. You need a small screw driver to between the cover and the metal at those two points.
Here is a picture of the 86-90 Saab Switch


Edit: At www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php
They have a throttle valve switch for a 79 VW Beetle. Beck/Arnley 1580074, it is listed under Electrical-Switch & Relay, then misc switches in their catalog. Whole sale close out for less than $30. I've looked to find a picture but none so far. I can't remember if they were 4 or 5 wire?
Ok I found a link for the fuel injection an the Beetle, it is 4 wire, and I believe it will work. A long time ago I was a VW wrench. Go here and look at he wiring.
www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring...n_wiring_diagram.pdf
And i would get that switch from RockAuto ASAP!

Had to open the sucker. Not much to lose.


COVER REMOVED
CONTACTS WITH THROTTLE OPEN -- THIS IS THE 'TROUBLED' POSITION -- SHOULD READ ZERO OHMS ON THE 2 RIGHT PINS OF THE CONNECTOR BUT GET 45 TO 175 OHMS -- DESPITE THE 2 BLADES OBVIOUSLY IN PHYSICAL CONTACT WITH EACH OTHER:




IN-BETWEEN




CONTACTS WITH THROTTLE CLOSED -- I READ THE CORRECT 'ZERO OHMS' ON THE 2 LEFT PINS OF THE CONNECTOR WITH THE SWITCH IN THIS POSITION -- hardly any pitting on the contacts on this left side:



There is a divet, a pitted mark, on the rightmost contact. Exactly the type of pitting you've seen on a bike with points & condensers. It is noticeable. Probably the 'high resistance' point of contact, when it should be zero ohms.

And in the photos you'll see I have my ohmmeter probes attached to the 2 rightmost contact blades. I actually got the 'throttle open' to read zero ohms as it should a couple times, but it's fluctuating between about 180 ohms and 45 ohms.

So I'm going to attempt to file the point on the far right as if it was one of the points in a points-and-condenser situation.

The wild fluctuations that the two rightmost metal blades inside this switch could explain the randomness of the bike running bad/good/okay.

I'll worry later about how to make the switch's cover look nice again, but right now it looks like the dog got after it.
(EDIT: I did of course try the 'good cop' way to get the cover off but those 2 pins not budge, not even chisel-as-lever would coax it a millimeter, so bad cop went to work with hacksaw and needlenose pliers. I saved the top half of the cover above those 2 pins which were melted into plastic shafts -- the remnants of the plastic shafts are in the photos, they would not come off the pins.)

MH I would much rather find a new replacement switch, thanks for alerting me to the somewhat generic nature of this type of switch.

I did also today check the temperature sensor -- it is in spec. I also checked the 'Run/Stop' switch -- it is also fine.

While I'm not 100% sure this switch is the only problem, the fact that it almost never reads the correct zero ohms when the throttle is open is not good. So I'll try to fix this then assess the remaining parts of the FI system.

IF ANYONE HAS ANY ADVICE about cleaning up/filing that rightmost contact on this switch, please let me know. I have a small set of files I was going to use on it.

This a picture of the switch that came on the 79 Beetle. I couldn't find one at a connector angle.

what the fuel pressure. if opensystem pinch off return line pressure should be doulble. for just a second u may bloww regulator if done to long.bythe clamp used at filter low psi system,5-8-psi tops.

It looks very close to the same, doesn't it?

enaz1:
I don't think he has checked the fuel pressure or injectors yet, but it has been mentioned and he has it on his list.

enaz1 wrote:

what the fuel pressure. if opensystem pinch off return line pressure should be doulble. for just a second u may bloww regulator if done to long.bythe clamp used at filter low psi system,5-8-psi tops.

I haven't yet reached the step in my troubleshooting map to test the fuel pressure. That is on the list of things I haven't checked yet.

At this point it is "all stop" until I get this switch working correctly so that it can be eliminated as a source of trouble.

When I twist the throttle open, the right 2 blades of the throttle switch are supposed to go to zero ohms to tell the computer "throttle open" and the computer then knows to provide more gas to the injectors.

And the computer is not getting the 'throttle is open' message from the switch, at least it's not a very *decisive* indication.

Maybe the computer says "the throttle is not open, do not increase fuel supply to injectors" because the throttle-open switch is not working.

That would explain why the bike runs rough with loss of power and will not rev very easily. The injectors are being shut down by the computer because the throttle switch is not telling the computer "the throttle is open."

At this point, I would not be at all surprised if this switch is the main problem.

But I'm going to finish going through it after the switch is working.

So far I've done this:

- valve clearance check -- they are fine
- new spark plugs
- electronic ignition pickups -- fine
- new oil and filter
- fuel pump turns on -- yes (still need to check fuel pressure)
- new fuses
- check coils -- they are fine
- check Run/Stop switch -- fine
- check battery and charging circuit -- fine
- disconnect and clean contacts of connectors and wires -- done
- remove computer, clean contacts, reinstall -- done
- temperature sensor -- is fine
- air flow switch -- 1/2 done, fine so far
- found and fixed major kink in gas line from gas tank
- removed and cleaned fuel petcock



On my list of things still to check:
- fuel pressure
- finish air flow switch check
- check the fuel injector's relay
- check ignitor's ground
- check the ignition switch
- find wire to secure injectors

www.redlinecycle might have the airbox sensor:
www.redlinecycle.com/Fuel%20Injection.html

And:Fuel Pumps & Regulators
www.fuel-pumps.net/gsl393.html
www.mpsracing.com/products/MPS/FuelPumps.asp

Motor Head wrote:

It looks very close to the same, doesn't it?

enaz1:
I don't think he has checked the fuel pressure or injectors yet, but it has been mentioned and he has it on his list.

Sheesh that is a relief, thanks MH, I would prefer buying a new unit instead of hacking this old switch! Thanks man, that switch looks identical, right down to the metal mounting holes on either side, hopefully it has the 1/2 moon slot for the shaft on the back side.