what are 'Bad Igniter' symptoms?

As known, ignition coils receive switched battery positive voltage from the positive battery terminal.

The wiring from battery is likely through a fuse, then through the ignition switch, then through the kill switch, then to the ignition coils.

There are several connectors along the way that might be loose or corroded and causing intermittent loss of voltage to both coils, simultaneously, whereby engine suddenly dies. (akin to switching off the ignition or turning the kill switch to off).
Could be similar result from corrosion or wear inside the ignition switch and/or kill switch.

There is probably a dual connector from a single harness wire (under the fuel tank) -- maybe a red wire or red/yellow wire -- and each coil receives batt+ voltage from the dual connector.

If not already done, would verify integrity of each connector and switch and clips on the inline fuse.

Also verify integrity of connection where negative battery cable attaches to rear of engine.

Good Fortune!

Thanks MH and Patton, so here's what I just did. Still pretty warm right now in Silicon Valley at 6:30pm, around 60 degrees so I took her for a spin (before that I pulled the drain plug from the black plastic box between the 4 throttle bodies and the air flow sensor and air filter -- the black plastic collector with 4 holes on the carb side and one big hole for the air filter etc.)

I thought maybe the prior owner overfilled the bike with oil once -- and the oil breather is connected with a 1.5" long hose to this black carb collector box, same as on other kz's. (happened to me on my '78 kz1000A2, got into the intake tract)

Hoping to find it with oil inside, maybe oil is randomly splashing on the throttle position sensor which is just next to it on the left side. Pulled the drain plug, no oil in the box. Real bastard to get the rubber drain plug out then back in, supposed to be that way to keep the intake tract airtight.

NEXT.

I checked the easy-to-get-at bullet connectors and for each one, I grasped both ends and twisted to get the bullet to make contact with its sheath. Did that on both sides of the bike behind the side covers.

And when I started her up after that, the bike was STUCK in "Keep me revved over 3000rpm" mode.

I ignored it and got on the road. Yep, it's running bad again, have to keep it over 3000rpm or engine dies.

Pulled into the McDonalds down my street under a light in the parking lot. I pulled both side covers, fuel pump working CHECK, hit the start button and fuel flows from the gas tank into the filter bigtime. I again wiggled wires, checked the fuses, on the white molex connectors I didn't separate them but moved the 2 sides of each connector in and out a bit to try and get better contact. No change, will not run unless I gun her a lot. Let off the throttle, the engine sounds like it's either getting no gas or no spark. The sound is like what you hear if you turn the handlebar On/Off switch to Off. Only difference is -- she'll run if I keep the revs up.

I limped her home and what's interesting is the bike when I parked earlier today was FINE. Then now at 6:30pm it is in '3000rpm or else' mode from the time I started it till limped home 10 minutes later. It was dead cold when I started it.

I'm hoping she'll be in 'bad mode' tomorrow morning in my driveway, maybe the wiggle test will find something.

My guess is -- there is a REALLY IFFY connection somewhere. Have you ever have an electrical situation where one strand of a multi-strand copper wire was all that was keeping a circuit active? Something like that is what I've got here. Electrical components to my knowledge are go/no go most of the time. This is probably a wire bent back and forth too many times, or a bad connector.

Based on your advice I will first focus on the main power from battery around the bike, through the fuse panel, ignition switch and handlebar On/Off.

I have already installed new fuses several days ago.

I think though the electrical problem is going to be related to the FI wiring harness -- if the bike's 12volt main power wiring was the problem, my lights would go off when the engine stalls out. And that's not happening, the lights stay on, and turn signals work, the start button works, the dashboard lights (oil, brake indicator) still work after the engine conks out.

I think after checking the main power loop on the bike I'm going to follow my map of things to check in the electrical part of the FI system -- relay, air flow sensor, temp sensor, throttle position sensor switch, etc. -- I will probably find a bad connection in the FI wiring harness.

The prior owner spent some time amongst the wiring, something he was very forthright about before I bought it. It is obvious that he did, because a few of the FI wires are hanging too loosely on the left side, pretty sure they were tucked up really neatly and not dangling like now.

Probably a frayed multistrand copper wire or a wire with a break inside, and the 2 ends of the wire at the break are still close to each other, held by the insulation, so that contact is made *sometimes.* Something like that.

You can check the whole harness for continuity with a DVOM. Might even have a Sound Feature or Beep, when connected.
Also installing a test light in a loop with the wire circuit to test supplying voltage through the wire and light back to ground. Then with the light glowing you can pull and twist, if it blinks, pull a bit more and it will go out= broken wire, or short to ground. Works fantastic and puts some AMPs through the wire, instead of a trickle like the DVOM.

Okay I spent several hours checking:

1) The coils:
coil #1 for cylinders 1 and 4:
- primary = 1.9 ohms
- secondary = 14,930 ohms
- primary to the core of the coil = infinite ohms on highest meter setting;
- samey-same with the secondary of the coil (plug caps removed as per the manual for this check), infinite ohms

coil #2 for cylinders 2 and 3:
primary = 1.9 ohms
secondary = 15,030 ohms
- primary to the core of the coil = infinite ohms on highest meter setting;
- samey-same with the secondary of the coil (plug caps removed as per the manual for this check), infinite ohms


PROGNOSIS: coil secondaries are high a bit, supposed to be 'about' 13,500 ohms per my Clymer book



2) Coil Resistor (it's on a plate in front of the 2 coils):
- it reads about 1.8 ohms, which is close to spec

PROGNOSIS: coil resistor seems okay.


3) The electronic ignition pickups (right side of crank behind cover)
- right side pickup (yellow and red wires) = 485 ohms
- left side pickup (blue and black wires) = 460 ohms

PROGNOSIS: supposed to read 450 to 500 ohms, they are fine.


4) Inductive timing light test
When my timing light flashes, here's what I see:


PROGNOSIS: Why is the timing 'not adjustable'.
It's not adjustable according to the manual.
Because although the 'T' mark is at the left edge of
the oval that has the vertical line for lining up the timing mark -- I'd like to adjust the timing so that the 'T' mark lines up with that vertical line, not to the left of it. All 4 cylinders are the same.


5) AIR FLOW SENSOR CHECK
- the Clymer manual says:
1) "set the meter on Rx100 ohms"
2) "manually move the flapper inside the air flow sensor box from fully closed to fully open"
3) "and the resistance should never be zero, and should never be infinite, but should read between 350 to 400 ohms"

I'm assuming that "should read 35,000 to 40,000 ohms" because on the Rx100 scale, when the meter display reads '350' it is 350 * 100 = 35,000 ohms.

PROGNOSIS: the flow meter is fine, I get a range of 35k to 40k ohms as I move the flapper by hand.



6) I then
- cleaned all the visible connectors around the FI part of the wiring harness using electronic contact cleaner (spray can)

- removed the computer and disconnected it and cleaned its large connector with a toothbrush and electronic contact cleaner (spray can)

- unplugged, inspected, then reconnected all the single 'bullet + sheath" individual wires

- checked the charging voltage across my battery -- 14.5 volts and higher at just over 2000rpm


DANG BIKE STILL RUNS LIKE A 3-LEGGED DOG. NO A 2-LEGGED DOG WITH ITS HIND LEGS (REMNANTS OF THE HIND LEGS ANYWAY) on one of them jury-rigged dog 1/2 wheelchair.
Will not run under 3k and pops and backfires.

I did find a 4 inch long 'curb crack' on the bottom of the muffler section on the Kerker pipe. I dont think it makes a difference.



I found that the electrical connectors for injectors #1, #2 and #3 are missing the metal clip that prevents the connector from coming free from the injector body.

Over time without their metal retaining clips, the electrical connectors on the 3 injectors for cylinders 1, 2 and 3 have been subjected to movement due to vibration etc. and these 3 connectors are FAR from 'snug.'

I'm thinking that tomorrow I have to take a look at the electrical connector sockets on the injector bodies of cylinders 1, 2 and 3 to see if I cant bend the sheaths out a bit inside the connector sockets so the injector plugs have a tighter fit, otherwise the connectors for these 3 injectors *might* be intermittently losing contact.

Only the electrical connector on injector #4 has a 'snug' feeling to it -- mostly because (I reckon) its metal retaining clip has prevented the connector from moving around and wearing down the connector socket on the injector body over time.

will I ever buy another FI bike NO

So some of those connectors have been working around on those Injectors? Probably like throwing a Hot Dog down a hallway. If you can tighten those pins up, while your there I suggest again you at least OHM the Injectors if not taking them out for a "Pattern" check as well. Did you check fuel pump pressure? On the Air flow Sensor, did you also OHM the Air Temp Sensor, what about the engine Temp Sensor under the Throttle body area?
What about the throttle Switch? That sucker could be your problem, and if the Idle speed screw has been adjusted, then this needs to be set as well.
The timing light was not just for checking the timing but also to look at the flashing light to see if the Ignition was breaking down, kind of a poor mans scope.

Motor Head wrote:

So some of those connectors have been working around on those Injectors? Probably like throwing a Hot Dog down a hallway. If you can tighten those pins up, while your there I suggest again you at least OHM the Injectors if not taking them out for a "Pattern" check as well. Did you check fuel pump pressure? On the Air flow Sensor, did you also OHM the Air Temp Sensor, what about the engine Temp Sensor under the Throttle body area?
What about the throttle Switch? That sucker could be your problem, and if the Idle speed screw has been adjusted, then this needs to be set as well.
The timing light was not just for checking the timing but also to look at the flashing light to see if the Ignition was breaking down, kind of a poor mans scope.

I spent hours today and have another long list of things to check. I ran out of daylight before finishing the flow meter checks. I'll be back at all the things above tomorrow.

'hotdog tossed down a hallway' is a great way to describe how loose 1, 2 and 3 injector connectors are compared to the nicely-snug #4 injector. It's like sloppy 2nds/3rd/4ths/then a simultaneous birth of triplets looseness on the injector connectors 1, 2 and 3.

At the top of my priority list for tomorrow:
- fix loose injector connectors
- check throttle switch
- temperature sensor
- check fuel pressure
- finish air flow meter check
- check the Run/Stop switch wiring

that's just the top of my list. That's about 1/4 of the things I still need to test.

MY MAIN CONCERN is that this is a computer problem.

If that turns out to be the case, I'm going to convert the bike to carbs.

In my opinion the benefit of this huge mess of extra parts called 'fuel injection' is FAR overcome by all the extra problems from all the extra JUNK. Why anyone would replace a purely mechanical, time-tested, easy to work on mechanical piece (carb) with a computer, sensors, switches, A COMPUTER FOR GODS SAKE

If someone came up to me in 1977 when I bought my first Kz, a kz1000 A1, and said "looky here, how'd you like to install a computer on your bike there. Bunch of other stuff too, sensors, switches, high pressure lines, fuel pump, fuel regulator, 4 injectors, and a partridge in a pear tree"

"Would the gas mileage be better on my bike?"
'Maybe a little.'

"Would my bike have more power?"
'Maybe some.'

"Would people think I was cool?"
'Thats the ticket son you got it you would be cool like Steve McQueen'

I'm not familiar with the Z1 classic model, but usually T is top dead center. If it is TDC, it should never line up with the mark using a timing light. At idle, the F should line up, then at full advance there should be a double line for advance. Maybe it's different for that model? Anyone for sure?

Well it could be a computer problem, but I sort of doubt it. I've seen countless numbers of perfectly good computers get replaced, as well as many other parts, that were miss diagnosed. Problem is that about the only way to check it is to have a known good computer to try, or a known good bike to fit the suspect to.
I would rule out every other possibility first. I think this is why the carb conversion becomes popular, it is an old system, parts and diagnostics are hard to come by. Personally after you talking about the fuel tank issues, I would pull those Injectors and hang them off to the side and check the spray pattern, they should not drip but have a nice mist in the cone shape. When off but still under pressure there should be No leaks from their tips either.

Did you see I found a color wiring diagram here on KZR, its in your other thread.

If the injector clips are missing, try a small piece of 0.032" safety wire. If that's too big, go down to 0.020"

If you can't locate any safety wire locally, try out at the general aviation airport. I know it can be obtained at www.browntool.com an aviation supply website.

If you have some Car wrecking yards near by they will have the clips, doubt they would charge you anything for them.

loudhvx wrote:

I'm not familiar with the Z1 classic model, but usually T is top dead center. If it is TDC, it should never line up with the mark using a timing light. At idle, the F should line up, then at full advance there should be a double line for advance. Maybe it's different for that model? Anyone for sure?

I've not seen a timing wheel like this one, it only has an 'F' mark on the 1 & 4 side. And the other side is not even engraved with "2, 3".

THIS IS THE TIMING WHEEL BEHIND THE (removed) EI PICKUPS



THIS IS THE '2, 3' SIDE -- ONLY HAS A "T" MARK


THIS IS THE '1, 4' SIDE - IT LOOKS AS I'M USED TO


As I accelerate, if I have my timing light on cylinder 1 or 4, the 'F' mark at idle is to the right of the '|' mark at the top. It then moves leftward when I give it gas.

I may have seen the double '||' nearly lined up with the top '|' but I didn't know what it meant.

Motor Head wrote:

Well it could be a computer problem, but I sort of doubt it. I've seen countless numbers of perfectly good computers get replaced, as well as many other parts, that were miss diagnosed. Problem is that about the only way to check it is to have a known good computer to try, or a known good bike to fit the suspect to.
I would rule out every other possibility first. I think this is why the carb conversion becomes popular, it is an old system, parts and diagnostics are hard to come by. Personally after you talking about the fuel tank issues, I would pull those Injectors and hang them off to the side and check the spray pattern, they should not drip but have a nice mist in the cone shape. When off but still under pressure there should be No leaks from their tips either.

Did you see I found a color wiring diagram here on KZR, its in your other thread.

Thank you for the wiring diagram and thanks everyone for the help. Kind of stumbling in the dark here, I really appreciate it. I'll be using the wiring diagram for sure.

The reason I think it may be the computer is the manual has an unusual and NOT OBVIOUS warning that is specific to this model -- you cannot disconnect electrical connectors on the bike, *unless* you first disconnect a single red/white wire that's behind the left side cover.

Failure to know about that, if for whatever reason you're disconnecting a connector in parts of the harness -- you can smoke the computer according to the warning in the manual.

The bike should have been designed idiot-proof on this one issue. Man I can think of TONS of times on bikes where I disconnected connectors, maybe to make room so I could work on something else blocked by the connector/harness, whatever.

The bike is in *excellent* cosmetic shape. I mean *Really* nice. In the very low 20s mileage. Yet this weird rough running problem for a bike that is otherwise is astonishingly good condition.

If in the past 31 years someone innocently disconnected a part of the harness without knowing the dang bike has this one Mother of All Wires that must be disconnected FIRST, then that innocent act could have munged the 31-year-old computer.

Back in 1980, the Intel 8086 chip had just come out. The IBM Personal Computer did not come out until 2 years later. The MacIntosh was 5 years away. This is a 31-year-old computer. Most of us burn through a laptop in 2 years. 31 years old WITH A ONE-WIRE DEATH TRAP.

I wish Kawasaki would have thought through that one-wire 'gotcha' more than they did. I can easily see, in the past 31 years, that a prior owner started disconnecting stuff and did not first unplug this one 'gotcha' wire.