Band Aid Coil Repowering Mod question

First, I'm absolutely not trying to start anything up on this, I am honestly curious.

When I first came onto this board 3+ years ago, more people than not were recommending the coil repowering mod. Now, it seems more people are recommending against it.

The other day, I was looking around on hybridz.org. a friend of mine is swapping an LS2/6-speed into a 73 240Z, and I've been helping him research the swap and look for parts.

One thing I keep seeing on vendor sites are "headlight repowering harnesses". They're very popular, and are frequently and enthusiastically recommended on the hybridz forums.

Doing a little research, I found the headlight power runs through the lightswitch, problems in the wiring to and from the switch are common, and the switches are not being reproduced. The idea behind the headlight repowering harness is to run power directly from the battery to the headlights, instead of running it through the switch.

Isn't that essentially the same thing as our coil repowering mod? If it is, why is it a good thing for Z-cars, and a bad thing for our bikes?

Well from my personal experience with both the automotive harness and relay set up, I've installed over 20, it works great for several reasons, and as far as a bike system, especially the 30 year old's, this Head light re-power would be considered before the coil re-power. Simply for the reason for the what if failure happens, would you rather be stalled in traffic with no coil power, or having to fiddle around in the dark?
I'm not suggesting either in your case for your bike issues are your own.

Motor Head wrote:

Well from my personal experience with both the automotive harness and relay set up, I've installed over 20, it works great for several reasons, and as far as a bike system, especially the 30 year old's, this Head light re-power would be considered before the coil re-power. Simply for the reason for the what if failure happens, would you rather be stalled in traffic with no coil power, or having to fiddle around in the dark?
I'm not suggesting either in your case for your bike issues are your own.

Are you saying the potential of the relays failing is the downside?

I'm saying that I have never done, or seen it done to re-power the Ignition like that, It is always feed from a switch to the coil/ module/ Ignitor, or what ever. Head lamps on the other hand are from the factory on many applications run through load relays, these are a higher quality relay that lasts for years. The relays in the kit for re-powering a head lamp or driving lights on a car usually come with a pretty in expensive contact point relay. But with all of the power available on most cars/ truck systems you can run them through a much better relay, that uses more power to latch the coil, and be able to with stand 100amp constant current flow.
So like I said I would do a head light before the coil mod thing.

I understand your confusion. As with any group of enthusiasts, everyone is trying to give the best advice. KZRider has a large group willing to share all for no particular reward other than the satisfaction of helping and sharing. Some members have more info, experience and take more time to share than others... this is a good thing.

Several years ago some of the members who were most active/vocal in sharing found these relay mods to be the best solution to many persistent symptoms.

As members turned over, some newer members had dissenting opinions on the best solutions to the many persistent symptoms... and defended them well and often.

After trying my first relay mod (the Coil Re-powering mod) I became a user and promoter of this approach. See link .

Others approached the same symptoms with a find/fix/replace the faulty item approach.

I believed that the first approach was faster and more convent for some skill levels, perhaps including mine. Dissenters argued that it does not directly fix the REAL problem, that it is more of a band-aid solution and that it is too often and or inappropriately used as the go-to cure-all solution.

I now come away believing that both camps have strong points and that the final choice is a personal one.

By the away, I have not removed the many relay-mods from my bike.

Best of success,
Bill

Being a Z owner myself (260z) I run relays on any electrical item that pulls a descent amount of amps. It takes the load off the switch and sends power directly from your battery. Much better than sending it from the battery, to the switch, to the accessory. On my kz1000 (newly purchased) I will be running relays for my lights and my coils.

I'll probably step into it now, but what is your reason behind wanting to re-power your coils? What are your voltage readings that you have taken, and where is the loss of voltage at?

Motor Head wrote:

I'm saying that I have never done, or seen it done to re-power the Ignition like that, It is always feed from a switch to the coil/ module/ Ignitor, or what ever. Head lamps on the other hand are from the factory on many applications run through load relays, these are a higher quality relay that lasts for years. The relays in the kit for re-powering a head lamp or driving lights on a car usually come with a pretty in expensive contact point relay. But with all of the power available on most cars/ truck systems you can run them through a much better relay, that uses more power to latch the coil, and be able to with stand 100amp constant current flow.
So like I said I would do a head light before the coil mod thing.

OK, so you're saying the automotive relay recommended in the WG coil mod isn't up to the loads/usage involved?

If that is what you're saying, then it makes sense to me. While I did the coil repowering mod over 3 years ago, I've ridden the bike less than 3,000 miles in that time, and I just had the relay go bad.

Is there a better/more durable relay to use?

I've never read the thread, so I can't say what was recommended. But there is a lot of relays available, sorry to say that do to the Import of low quality foreign goods it is more than likely you will pay good money for crap. If you look at some of the OEM relays, yes they cost more, they generally will be better for standing up to time, than a universal $5 relay. Some of the biggest differences you can easily see with a naked eye, and that is the material used in the construction, terminals, contacts, casing etc. It doesn't have to come from a dealer, you can still by at a replacement parts store, but look to spend $20 or more. Head lamp relays, main relays, blower fan relays, fuel pump relays, etc all have been designed for a constant load of at least 8 amps, and as much as 40.

Oh and with your 3 phase stator and R/R hook up, where did you source power for the brown wire on the R/R? Is it seeing the battery voltage level with out a drop in voltage? If it sees the power down .5v-1.0v lower than what the battery is, then it will make up the difference and the charging voltage will be just that .5v-1.0v higher, possibly being well over 15v.

bill_wilcox100 wrote:

I understand your confusion. As with any group of enthusiasts, everyone is trying to give the best advice. KZRider has a large group willing to share all for no particular reward other than the satisfaction of helping and sharing. Some members have more info, experience and take more time to share than others... this is a good thing.

Several years ago some of the members who were most active/vocal in sharing found these relay mods to be the best solution to many persistent symptoms.

As members turned over, some newer members had dissenting opinions on the best solutions to the many persistent symptoms... and defended them well and often.

After trying my first relay mod (the Coil Re-powering mod) I became a user and promoter of this approach. See link .

Others approached the same symptoms with a find/fix/replace the faulty item approach.

I believed that the first approach was faster and more convent for some skill levels, perhaps including mine. Dissenters argued that it does not directly fix the REAL problem, that it is more of a band-aid solution and that it is too often and or inappropriately used as the go-to cure-all solution.

I now come away believing that both camps have strong points and that the final choice is a personal one.

By the away, I have not removed the many relay-mods from my bike.

Best of success,
Bill

Here's how I look at it, Bill.

These bikes have old wiring harnesses on them, most at least 30 years old. Even under the best of conditions, that wiring will have become degraded over time.

Not only that, but the more time passes, the more that wiring degrades.

I'm guessing the coils and the headlight represent more than 50% of the power requirements on the bike. If I'm wrong, and that's not the case, then surely they represent a significant portion of the bike's power requirements.

To my admittedly unknowledgable mind, it just makes sense to independently power those two huge power consumers independently, with new wiring.

I agree that it may mask other electrical problems, but with my considerable experience at being stranded by the side of the road, cursing and jumping up and down on the kickstarter, it seems to me that the less power at risk to those other, inevitable electrical problems, the better, especially for someone who doesn't have the skills to easily diagnose those problems.

Is there a flaw in that logic?

seanof30306 wrote:

bill_wilcox100 wrote:

I understand your confusion. As with any group of enthusiasts, everyone is trying to give the best advice. KZRider has a large group willing to share all for no particular reward other than the satisfaction of helping and sharing. Some members have more info, experience and take more time to share than others... this is a good thing.

Several years ago some of the members who were most active/vocal in sharing found these relay mods to be the best solution to many persistent symptoms.

As members turned over, some newer members had dissenting opinions on the best solutions to the many persistent symptoms... and defended them well and often.

After trying my first relay mod (the Coil Re-powering mod) I became a user and promoter of this approach. See link .

Others approached the same symptoms with a find/fix/replace the faulty item approach.

I believed that the first approach was faster and more convent for some skill levels, perhaps including mine. Dissenters argued that it does not directly fix the REAL problem, that it is more of a band-aid solution and that it is too often and or inappropriately used as the go-to cure-all solution.

I now come away believing that both camps have strong points and that the final choice is a personal one.

By the away, I have not removed the many relay-mods from my bike.

Best of success,
Bill

Here's how I look at it, Bill.

These bikes have old wiring harnesses on them, most at least 30 years old. Even under the best of conditions, that wiring will have become degraded over time.

Not only that, but the more time passes, the more that wiring degrades.

I'm guessing the coils and the headlight represent more than 50% of the power requirements on the bike. If I'm wrong, and that's not the case, then surely they represent a significant portion of the bike's power requirements.

To my admittedly unknowledgable mind, it just makes sense to independently power those two huge power consumers independently, with new wiring.

I agree that it may mask other electrical problems, but with my considerable experience at being stranded by the side of the road, cursing and jumping up and down on the kickstarter, it seems to me that the less power at risk to those other, inevitable electrical problems, the better, especially for someone who doesn't have the skills to easily diagnose those problems.

Is there a flaw in that logic?

Sorry, didn't follow that last paragraph...

Mods well done with suitably rated components sounds-good-to-me.

No mods, just find/fix/repair the real problem with suitably rated components sounds-good-to-me also.

I have no agenda here... after all is said and done you just want to be riding with peace of mind and in the shortest time possible... your call.

Best of success,
Bill