Another reason to do the coil mod anyways

This is how I wired my upgraded fuse box with alarm LEDs to indicate which fuse is blown. Someone may find this usefull.



Best of success!

Post edited by: bill_wilcox100, at: 2008/02/03 14:50

Thanks Bill, that's great stuff.

Can you do the same modification to a 1979 KZ 650?
Was going to do the fuse blade switch and clean up the connections on it anyway..
Thanks,
Ed

CptEDIV, I only have the information for my 1977 KZ650-B1. However, having read the messages here for a couple of years I believe that the wiring on most 650's share very similar colour codes. This even seems to extend to most models in that era. There are more similarities than differences... for what I understand.

It was my understanding that soon after 1977 all bikes were mandated to have the lights come on automatically when the ignition switch was turn on and therefore there was no Light ON-OFF switch populated in the switch gear.

It was also my understanding that around that time a feature was added to bikes in general which disconnected the light while the starter was trying to start the engine.

You will want to check your bike and see how yours is setup. Based on what you find you may not need any of these additional relays. If you do, you will want check your maintenance manual to adapt my diagram to your actual colour code.

On the subject of upgrading the fuse holder to the blade type, this is what I did and I don't regret it. My original holder had 3 fuses so I toke the opportunity to upgrade to a 5 fuse holder for future expansion. So far, I have added one extra fuse for the WG Coil Re-powering mod... this to help with any potential troubleshooting. That leaves me with one as yet unused fuse position. I found that the blade fuse holder was a useful upgrade and I have never had a related fault to date.

If you are cleaning up your connectors and you want to stay OEM'ish you can get all the original single and multi circuit connectors from Z1 like I did. They were inexpensive and worked well for me.

Best of success!

Guys, as was suggested earlier in this thread, I grounded terminal 87a when I did this mod.

Just tried the bike out and am getting zero spark at the plugs even though full battery power is at the coil power wire.

Could the fact that I grounded 87a, make it so that I wouldn't have any spark?

For starters, grounding pin 87a in the original WG Coil Re-powering mod or in the newer version mod, if done correctly, cannot and will not affect the proper operation of the Coil(s). Pin 87a is the NC or Normally Closed pin and the C or Common pin will only be connected to this contact when the Ignition switch is OFF and therefore have no effect when the Ignition switch is ON.

Just some troubleshooting ideas here. If the WG Coil Re-powering mod (Relay) is wired correctly you should see the following:

1) When the Ignition Switch is OFF, there should be no Battery voltage available at the Coil(s) input(s). Place your meter between the Battery (-) and the power input connector to the Coil. If there is voltage then there is a wiring error that needs to be traced and corrected. You probably have the Battery and Ground connections reversed. If this does not resolve the symptom then consider re-wiring to the original and relatively simpler Coil Re-powering mod without this Grounding feature.

2) When the Ignition Switch is ON, there should be full Battery voltage available at the Coil(s) input(s). If there is voltage then there is no wiring error related to your new Relay mod and your problem is related to other causes such as the Coil control circuit (points circuit or the electronic ignition module/circuit).

3) If this does not resolve the symptom consider removing the Relay mod and going back one step to the original no-relay circuit and getting the coil(s) to fire that way.

I hope this helps. Let us know what you find.

Best of success!

PS,
Don't forget to check the 5 Amp fuse you put in line with between the Battery (+) and the Relay... you did put a separate fuse in line with the Relay, right?

Post edited by: bill_wilcox100, at: 2008/02/16 23:32

bill_wilcox100 wrote:

Just some troubleshooting ideas here. If the WG Coil Re-powering mod (Relay) is wired correctly you should see the following:

1) When the Ignition Switch is OFF, there should be no Battery voltage available at the Coil(s) input(s).

2) When the Ignition Switch is ON, there should be full Battery voltage available at the Coil(s) input(s).

3) If this does not resolve the symptom consider removing the Relay mod and going back one step to the original no-relay circuit and getting the coil(s) to fire that way.

PS,
Don't forget to check the 5 Amp fuse you put in line with between the Battery (+) and the Relay... you did put a separate fuse in line with the Relay, right?

First, thanks for the help!

1. No voltage when ignition switch is off.

2. Full battery voltage available at the inputs when the ignition switch is on & the kill switch is in the run position.

3. The issue here is that I clipped off the original input wires all the way back to where they come out of the wiring harness. I won't say this can't be done but I'd rather exhaust other possibilities before going through the process of re-wiring it.

PS. I did put an inline bladed fuse but used a 10Amp instead of the 5Amp you mentioned.

A couple of other things that may or may not be important:

1.) The turn signal ground is currently disconnected. I looked at the wiring diagram but it doesn't look to me like it should affect this.

2.) When putting the bike back together, I noticed that the main wiring harness was not run correctly so I put it back where it was supposed to be. However, I had to push pull and prod to get it back in there properly. I suppose something could have come loose or broken as a result of it but I was very careful.

3. When working on the bike I had the timing advancer out in order to clean and lube it properly.

4. I had zero issues with getting spark before starting the job(s) so I'm almost 100% confident that the coils themselves are ok.

EDIT: Is there a way to go through the ignition system troubleshooting testing explained in the FSM without an Electrotester?

Post edited by: Little B, at: 2008/02/17 14:02

Little B, glad to hear you put a fuse in line!

The good stuff:

So, if there is full Battery (+) voltage at the coil input(s), that’s Yellow with Red strip on my bike, then the WG Coil Re-powering mod is doing its job. You need to look elsewhere.

Now, do the points do their job? Place your meter across the points. Place one lead on the Ground side which is also the wire to the capacitor/condenser. Place the other lead on the control wire going to the Coil control input. For example, on my bike that would be the Black wire for the 1-4 Coil and Green for the 2-3 Coil. With the bike out of gear and Ignition switch ON rotate the kick start until one set of Point is closed. Now, read the voltage across the Points... which should be zero. Next, manually open the points and the voltage across the Points should be less than but very close to the Coil input voltage. If it is, the points are doing their job. Repeat this for the other set of points and see if you get the identical results. If you get the same results, then both sets of points are doing their job and you need to look elsewhere for the fault.

If all is good so far, then repeat the above but with the meter across the Control input of one of the Coils and you should get the same results... zero volts when the Points are closed and Batter voltage with the points are open. If so, repeat with the other Coil control input. If you get the same results again then the control signals are getting to both coils and you need to look elsewhere for the fault.

Next, use your Maintenance manual to find the typical resistance of the primary side (Lo Voltage) of the Coil and the typical resistance of the secondary side (Hi Voltage) of the Coil. For example, on my bike that would be 4 Ohms and 24 K Ohms respectively for the Kawasaki OEM Coils. For other coils see the manufacture's specifications. If you get the correct readings then the Coil(s) are probably OK and you will need to look elsewhere for the fault.

Finally, you will want to pull the plugs, place them against the engine, crank the motor and a spark should appear. If it does then the ignition seems to be OK and you have an intermittent electrical ignition fault or you will need to look elsewhere.

Now to your "Important Things":

1. If attaching the turn signal Ground lead make the bike fire then your main ground lead (Black and about 8 AWG on mine) is not electrically connected to the engine. Attach, clean, repair and or replace the ground and its attachment lugs as required.

2.If all tests above passed then moving the wire harness has not caused a problem. If it did not pass the tests above then all bets are off and you probably have an intermittent contact. Clean and or replace all contacts then repeat tests. Also, move the harness vigorously while repeating the tests.

3.When you reassembled your advancer and your points plate you may have shorted out the points, you would have failed one or more of the tests and this would explain your symptoms.
Also, you may have assembled the timing lobe 180 degrees out of phase. Check your manual.

4. If the coils are new replacements they are probably fine.
If they are the originals or used parts from another bike, then they can and will fail at any time... don't ask how I know. :blush:

PS. Sorry Little B, but I do my electrical troubleshooting with a Multimeter. Never tried to do this without one and some test just can't been done without one. Someone else may be able to guide you through, maybe using a test light.
The good news is that Multimeters are relatively cheap these days... maybe $10 to $25. Try your automotive supply shop or electronics hobby shop. Just be sure that the Ohms scale will work to work in the Zero to 10 Ohm range and that it will work to and above the 24 K Ohm range for the coil resistance tests.

If you are using a newer electronic ignition system, then kindly disregard the above and listen to someone who knows what they are talking about with those systems.

Best of success!



Little B, just a late minute thought...

On my bike I had a problem when switching over from the OEM coils to new Dyna Coils. The screw that holds down the primary wires is very, very close to the mounting spacer and in my case it would short out in the rain.

Check your bike and if it is similar consider shrink tubing the spacer or coating the screw with liquid tape... no I never used this liquid tape, but some on this site have and have reported good results.

Best of success!

Post edited by: bill_wilcox100, at: 2008/02/17 15:58

Post edited by: bill_wilcox100, at: 2008/02/17 16:00

Post edited by: bill_wilcox100, at: 2008/02/17 16:01

bill_wilcox100 wrote:

PS. Sorry Little B, but I do my electrical troubleshooting with a Multimeter. Never tried to do this without one and some test just can't been done without one. Someone else may be able to guide you through, maybe using a test light.
If you are using a newer electronic ignition system, then kindly disregard the above and listen to someone who knows what they are talking about with those systems.
Little B, just a late minute thought...

On my bike I had a problem when switching over from the OEM coils to new Dyna Coils. The screw that holds down the primary wires is very, very close to the mounting spacer and in my case it would short out in the rain.

Check your bike and if it is similar consider shrink tubing the spacer or coating the screw with liquid tape... no I never used this liquid tape, but some on this site have and have reported good results.

Thanks Bill.

Well, I actually have the newer electronic ignition and don't have points. I probably should have mentioned that. Sorry. :blush:

I do have a multimeter and use it for testing. The only issue is that I may be mis-reading it as I'm not super experienced with one yet.

At least the WG coil mod I did works right!

I started running through the tests that I could do with just a multimeter in the FSM and think I might have an igniter problem. :pinch: I probably should start a different thread for that though so I'll do so and then put a link to it from here.

Here is the link . Help :blink:

Post edited by: Little B, at: 2008/02/17 17:08

Yah, all you guys with your modern electronic ignition systems... you just don't know what you're missing.

Post edited by: bill_wilcox100, at: 2008/02/17 16:24

The problem turned out to be that I didn't have power going to the IC Igniter. I thought that that part of the mod was only for Dyna S users but it is actually for anyone with an electronic ignition! :blink:

So, if you have an electronic ignition, make sure you run the wire from 87 to the IC Igniter (In my case) as well as the coils.

If you have a bike with points, then that step isn't required.

Little B, congrats on your successful troubleshooting! :woohoo:

Got any pics of where you mounted the Relay?

Best of success!