Noob who needs guidance

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12 Mar 2016 04:20 #715057 by Nessism
Replied by Nessism on topic Noob who needs guidance
Here is a link to a VM26 rebuild tutorial. This version of VM is from a Suzuki but most of the elements are the same. members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/i.../vm_carb_rebuild.pdf

Key thing is to take the carbs fully apart and clean all the parts in carb dip. You don't have to take the slide mechanism apart, just dip them all assembled, but you should ungang the carbs since this is the only way to do the job right.

Get new O-rings from cycleorings.com or Z1 Enterprise, and any other parts you may need but avoid purchasing crappy "carb kits" since they are full of inferior aftermarket jets and such.

Do the job right the first time and your bike will run well. Short cut the cleaning process and you will join the countless people that have "cleaned the carbs three times..." and yet the bike doesn't run right.

Adding pods adds significant complication to the process since there is trial and error jetting changes that will be needed. Good luck with that. Also, many people purchase junky throw away Emgo pods or similar instead of proper K&N's or APE filters which cost more money. Maybe just my opinion but nothing screams NOOB more than a set of Emgo pods.

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12 Mar 2016 05:49 #715063 by 650ed
Replied by 650ed on topic Noob who needs guidance
Here's some info that should prove helpful...........

Here are some tips that you may find helpful:

Many newbies and not so newbies run into or issues with their bikes which could be easily avoided with a little preparation or information. Here are a couple recommendations that I hope you will find useful.

Before riding your KZ you should take a little time to become familiar with it. Simple things like checking the oil, tire pressures, etc. are explained in the Kawasaki Owner's Manual. If you bike didn't come with one (they normally are in a little holder on the bottom of the seat) you can usually find one on eBay - be sure to get one for your exact year/model.


MANUAL

You really should consider buying the Kawasaki Factory Service Manual for your bike. The factory service manual provides instructions on the various maintenance procedures and schedules for your bike, procedures for diagnosing problems, proper torque values for the various fasteners (VERY IMPORTANT), and insight into how each system on your bike works even if you are not repairing that system. Studying the manual before you attempt performing service on your bike will impart an understanding of the system you are working on which will increase the odds of success.

The manuals usually are readily available for most models on eBay and other sources; but be sure to get one that has your specific year and model in it as there are differences between the various KZ650 models. I do not recommend Clymers, Haynes, or other aftermarket manuals as I have seen instances where they provide inaccurate advice. You may decide to use those to supplement the factory manual, but in my opinion they are not a suitable substitute. If you have trouble finding one for your model ask us to help.


TOOLS

WARNING! Do not even try to use Phillips screwdrivers on the Kawasaki cross head screws. Despite their appearance they are not Phillips screws. They are Japanese Industrial Standard (JIS) screws. The tips of Phillips screwdrivers are too long & pointed to allow the 4 blades of the screwdriver to properly engage the screws, so when you apply force the screw head slots will deform and look like crap. The fact is that Phillips screws were deliberately designed to have the screwdriver bit "cam out." This was done to prevent production line assembly from over-tightening, stripping, or breaking the screws. JIS screws do not have this problem. A proper fitting JIS bit can tighten a JIS screw to and beyond the torque spec without camming out. Here's the good news - you can easily modify standard Phillips screwdriver tips to fit the JIS screws.

I have ground down the tips of DeWalt #2 and DeWalt #3 Phillips to make them fit JIS screws. The large crosshead screws on the cases take modified #3 bits (or genuine #3 JIS bits). To modify the DeWalt bits you need to grind the very tip a little, then test fit, then grind a little more and test fit, etc. until the bit no longer "rocks" back and forth in the screwhead. Picture 1 below shows how a DeWalt #3 bit fits the case screws of my KZ650 after being ground properly. The #2 DeWalt bits can be modified the same way to fit smaller JIS screws. Pictures 2 and 3 below shows DeWalt #2 and #3 modified bits.

I did find a place that sells authentic JIS bits. They don't list the #3 bit, but if you contact them they can provide the #3 JIS bits even though they are not listed on the website. These folks were very easy to work with, and the authentic bits do work great. Here's their site:

www.rjrcooltools.com/shop_item_detail.cfm?subcat_ID=89

Pictures 4 & 5 below show a comparison between my home made modified bits with the authentic JIS bits.

PICTURE 1
[IMG


PICTURE 2
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PICTURE 3
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PICTURE 4
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PICTURE 5
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Before reaching for that wrench or ratchet consider the following. The bolts are steel, but your engine and front forks are aluminum. The bolts are much tougher than the aluminum and if over tightened will strip the aluminum threads. Although these can be repaired, preventing damage by applying proper torque will save you grief, time, and money. Tightening fasteners properly requires torque wrenches. Various vendors, including Snap-on, CDI, Sears, etc., market torque wrenches. The two most popular types are the bar type and micrometer type. Either will work, but the micrometer type is a bit easier to use, especially if you are tightening several fasteners with the same torque - such as cylinder head covers. You will need a torque wrench calibrated in INCH POUNDS for many of the bolts. You will also need a torque wrench calibrated in FOOT POUNDS for the larger bolts. Don't try to use the foot pounds wrench on the smaller bolts as it will not be sensitive enough at low torque settings to provide accurate torque. There are many fasteners that require low torque. These include such things as 6mm oil pan bolts, cylinder head cover bolts, etc. for which the torque in 61-78 inch pounds. These low torque bolts require a wrench that is accurate at low settings and this wrench should be graduated in inch pounds. In addition, there are numerous high torque fasteners such as the front axle nuts (51 - 65 foot pounds) or swing arm pivot shaft nuts (58 - 87 foot pounds). These require a wrench that is accurate at higher settings; this wrench should be graduated in foot pounds. Using the proper torque wrenches to correctly tighten fasteners will help prevent damage and contribute to a safe bike. The Kawasaki Service Manual will list the various torque specs for the bolts. I suggest you get the manual before buying the torque wrenches so you can decide which wrenches best meet the torque specs.

Consider buying a can of Kroil penetrating oil and use it to soak stubborn fasteners for a couple days before trying to loosen them. Remember, the original screws and bolts were installed on your bike when Jimmy Carter was President, so many of them may be hard to remove. Kroil can be bought online, at guns shows, and at some other venues.


MOTOR OIL
The ingredients in oils have changed over the years. For example, today's Castrol GTX oil (and pretty much all other AUTOMOBILE oil) is not the same as it was in the 1980's. Back then it worked great in KZ bikes. But, things have changed. Early AUTOMOBILE oils contained zinc phosphorus compounds (ZDDP) to protect engine components from metal to metal contact. This was good for engines, but it was found to be destructive to catalytic converters. Consequently, in AUTOMOBILE oils ZDDP was virtually eliminated and replaced with different chemistry generically referred to as "Friction Modifiers." These work fine and offer good protection for normal AUTOMOBILE engines. However, today's AUTOMOBILE oil "Friction Modifiers" are destructive to wet clutches. KZ bikes (and many other brands) have wet clutches. As a result of these oil chemistry changes a distinction needed to be made between those oils which are suitable for wet clutches and those which are not. That distinction was documented by the Japanese Engine Oil Standards Implementation Panel (JASO). JASO developed a number of different oil specifications for different applications. The specifications that apply to 4 stroke motorcycles fall under the "4T Specifications." Within the 4T specifications the JASO MA class oils are specifically formulated for 4 stroke motorcycles with wet clutches.

There are synthetic, semi-synthetic, and non-synthetic oils that meet the JASO-MA standard and any of them will work ok. However, using oils that are not designated as meeting the JASO-MA standard is destructive to KZ clutches.

Good luck with your bike. Ed

1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)
The following user(s) said Thank You: Little B

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12 Mar 2016 08:10 #715082 by DaltonArends
Replied by DaltonArends on topic Noob who needs guidance
Thank you very much guys. This well help me alot. I did buy a carb kit and it is probably full of cheap parts. After tearing into the carbs they really don't look that bad. I will go buy new O rings from whete you recommended and keep the current jets that are in. I will focus on getting it running smoothly before going to pods. Will just have to buy new air filter as well as rubber boots between air box and carbs. Again, thank you guys very much.

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12 Mar 2016 08:39 - 12 Mar 2016 08:41 #715086 by loudhvx
Replied by loudhvx on topic Noob who needs guidance
To get proper jetting takes a lot of work, but fortunately, manual-slide carbs like what you have, are generally easier to tune than CV carbs. If you really are a noob to carb tuning, then make sure you get some info from someone who actually spent time tuning VM26's.

And before you get to tuning for pods, you really need to make sure the compression is good. The valve clearances are set correctly. There are no vacuum leaks. The ignition is rock solid and properly timed. And your fuel delivery system (tank, petcock etc.) are working perfectly. The easiest way to know the fuel delivery and ignition etc are working properly is to run it with the airbox first, as you are planning. ...good plan. B)
Last edit: 12 Mar 2016 08:41 by loudhvx.

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12 Mar 2016 10:41 #715102 by DaltonArends
Replied by DaltonArends on topic Noob who needs guidance
The bike ran well when it was parked 4 years ago. Only thing I know of that was stopping it from starting after I pulled it out, was there was a gallon of gas left in the tank. So I ordered a new petcock and that is on its way. Aswell as cleaned out the tank. Once petcock comes in, as well as air filter and rubber boots, I'll get carbs back on and hope everything goes smooth.

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12 Mar 2016 11:37 - 12 Mar 2016 11:38 #715110 by punisher11b
Replied by punisher11b on topic Noob who needs guidance
Heck that's not all that long ago. Seems like your biggest enemys are going to be just cracked rubber and varnish in the fuel system. Good luck and please post some eye candy when you get finished. B)

- good luck
Last edit: 12 Mar 2016 11:38 by punisher11b.

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12 Mar 2016 21:28 - 12 Mar 2016 21:40 #715174 by ezrider714
Replied by ezrider714 on topic Noob who needs guidance
The words NOOB and Pods should never collide in the same sentence.... :ohmy:
I speak from 40 yrs experience.... ;)
And I'm a fan of pods, but they are not for the faint of heart or the impatient :laugh:
Oh and I forgot you can go thru all the trouble Ed shows to make JIS bits :blink: or just replace every fastener you take out with the correct size Allen Head fastener and improve the looks a 1000% :woohoo: use Never-Sieze to prevent galvanic corrosion due to the aluminum threads and steel fasteners. Happy Motoring :)

78 KZ650SR Mine since 79
4-1 Mac Jet Hot coated since mid 80's
Dyna Coils
Saddlebags (I ain't skeered of going nowhere) :)
Last edit: 12 Mar 2016 21:40 by ezrider714. Reason: Clicked submit by accident

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13 Mar 2016 07:06 #715186 by 650ed
Replied by 650ed on topic Noob who needs guidance

ezrider714 wrote: .........
Oh and I forgot you can go thru all the trouble Ed shows to make JIS bits :blink: or just replace every fastener you take out with the correct size Allen Head fastener and improve the looks a 1000% :woohoo:


All the trouble isn't much. If you have a medium or coarse knife sharpening stone it only takes about 5 minutes to cut the point off a Phillips screwdriver bit. That's less time than it takes to find and order the correct Allen screws, and it costs nothing or nearly nothing. However, if you like the look of Allen screws better they would be the logical choice. For some, keeping the JIS screws lets the engine look factory fresh rather than one that has been fiddled with. Which look one likes is purely a matter of personal taste.

Personally, if I was buying a used bike that had Allen screws I would wonder what the previous owner had done inside the engine, and if I did not know him and his level of mechanical skills I would be concerned that he may have done some harm in there. Ed

1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)

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13 Mar 2016 07:45 #715197 by SWest
Replied by SWest on topic Noob who needs guidance
I have Allens because they don't get munged up and one tool is needed to take the covers, etc. off. B)
Steve

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15 Mar 2016 20:11 #715621 by ezrider714
Replied by ezrider714 on topic Noob who needs guidance
Yes it's a personal preference but one rooted in years of machine designing, not only do they look better(PP) they are made of better steel and rated to a much higher strength. I never sell any bike that I buy for myself. And the people who's bikes I work on love the look of Allen head fasteners even if most of them don't know the advantages of them :ohmy: , they think it makes them look like they do :silly:
It's a good bet you won't find any Phillips or JIS screws on any high level racing machines of any kind and with good reason :blink:

78 KZ650SR Mine since 79
4-1 Mac Jet Hot coated since mid 80's
Dyna Coils
Saddlebags (I ain't skeered of going nowhere) :)

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15 Mar 2016 20:42 #715626 by 650ed
Replied by 650ed on topic Noob who needs guidance

ezrider714 wrote: It's a good bet you won't find any Phillips or JIS screws on any high level racing machines of any kind and with good reason :blink:


No doubt lots of race bikes and others use Allens; that was true of the factory prepped BSA racing engine I bought from Gary Nixon. However, I must say you would lose your "you won't find any Phillips or JIS screws on any high level racing machines of any kind" bet pretty quickly. The KZ650 bikes that beat all the 750 cc AMA/FIM records had the original JIS screws holding them together. The image below shows the records those bikes set. Ed

Attachment WORLDRECORDS2-2.jpg not found


1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)
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15 Mar 2016 20:45 #715627 by SWest

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