Took the plunge

To keep things in perspective you have to stop and realize that test was done before there were jet kits available.

I've heard mixed opinions when I asked the same question. But if you're a gear head, you know that you're already gonna do it
Personally, I love it! Ed is advising you the same way he did me. And he has been very helpful to me. But for me these are to have fun with on the road and in the garage.
I only changed to the pods. I decided not to change jets until I go 4 to 1. I already notice a positive change in power.
I recommend that before carb tuning that you back down the throttle to almost dead before even lighting it up the first time. It took me about a collective 5 hours to get things right. Before I go to the exhaust though, I'm looking towards an oil cooler Good luck dude!

Ed,

Thanks for that that was a good read. So it looks like I'll just leave the stock cabrs, jets and airbox alone except maybe a thorough cleaning.

I'll have amac 4-1 pipe here soon. It sounds like its time to shave some weight and look into a CAM?

crh wrote: To keep things in perspective you have to stop and realize that test was done before there were jet kits available.

Perhaps you can recommend jets, needles, & settings for his bike that will make it run well from idle to redline and add more power. Inquiring minds would like to know. :laugh: Ed

Sounds like all around though I won't see the kind of power increase I was expecting, say with an intake change on my Mustang haha I will have to look more into CAM's weight reduction and possibly even a different set of carbs to open her right up.

afotion wrote: Ed,

Thanks for that that was a good read. So it looks like I'll just leave the stock cabrs, jets and airbox alone except maybe a thorough cleaning.

I'll have amac 4-1 pipe here soon. It sounds like its time to shave some weight and look into a CAM?

Probably the very best thing would be to make sure the bike is running at its full stock potential. A full tune-up might yield more power. The KZ750-4 was a pretty fast bike when new, and I can see by you avatar that you have already shed some weight from it so it should have pretty impressive straight line performance. If you have the Kawasaki Service Manual you should be able to tune it up so it's reaching its original potential. If you can do that you will have established an excellent baseline from which you can measure any performance gains or losses resulting from mods. If you don't have the manual here's an electronic version for the KZ750-4 but it's not for your bike's exact year, so there are probably some differences. It loads up fine using internet explorer, but Firefox has a problem loading it.
www.theotherstyle.info/manuals/bikes&atv...i%20KZ750%20Four.pdf

Here's a road test article on the KZ750-4(see link below). Notice near the end the author mentions "If you were headed for a drag strip, a competent lightweight rider would see low 12s and over 100 mph in the quarter-mile, beating out (barely) the CB750F." That's pretty fast for back in the day and no slouch even today. Ed

www.ridermagazine.com/manufacturer/kawas...750-e-1980-1982.htm/

Nice!

Thanks again Ed

I do have the original manual with mine though, it comes in very handy.

650ed wrote:

crh wrote: To keep things in perspective you have to stop and realize that test was done before there were jet kits available.

Perhaps you can recommend jets, needles, & settings for his bike that will make it run well from idle to redline and add more power. Inquiring minds would like to know. :laugh: Ed

Let's start at the start there laughing boy....How many jet kits have you personally installed Ed???? :kiss:

Unlike most people that post so called helpful information on the Internet, I actually work on motorcycles for a living. On any given day it's Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki & KTM. Not to mention the HD's, Triumphs and Chinese crap that comes through the door I have over 30 years of HANDS ON, REAL WORLD experience.


On any healthy engine with CV carburetors, Jet Kits work just fine for pod filters. It's the only way to go if you want the air box gone and can't afford mechanical carbs. That article you keep referring to has merit in some respects for reasons that should be clearly obvious. It's accurate to a degree but it's certainly not the bottom line.

For starters, in that article, they jetted the bikes with the same approach that was used on VM series carburetors. It's what everyone did at first because it was what they knew how to do and it worked on VM [manual throttle slide] carburetors. Lift the needle and crank up the main jet 4 or 5 sizes was the approach. It didn't work very well.

Eventually people got smarter and realized that the fuel curve needed to be corrected with a different needle taper to work properly. Once that happened, the jet kits were and remain the answer to getting CV carburetors to work with the air box removed.

I have an Ivan's jet kit in my ZRX with a Dale Walker pipe. I'll guarantee it carburetes as smooth as your 650

Every bike has to be approached individually when you're modifying it. It it's not healthy to start with, there's no sense in trying to tweak it for performance increases. It won't respond the same as a healthy engine will.

For most people these days, leaving the air box on is the best bet because they don't know how to jet a bike or don't have the money for a proper jet kit. There are however other people that do have the skills and just need to be pointed in the right direction. Your answer, as usual is leave it stock...never attempt to improve it in any way except to wash and polish.... I disagree with that concept because I do know how to tune them and can make them run better with modifications.

crh wrote:

650ed wrote:

crh wrote: To keep things in perspective you have to stop and realize that test was done before there were jet kits available.

Perhaps you can recommend jets, needles, & settings for his bike that will make it run well from idle to redline and add more power. Inquiring minds would like to know. :laugh: Ed

Let's start at the start there laughing boy....How many jet kits have you personally installed Ed???? :kiss:


On any healthy engine with CV carburetors, Jet Kits work just fine for pod filters. It's the only way to go if you want the air box gone and can't afford mechanical carbs. That article you keep referring to has merit in some respects for reasons that should be clearly obvious. It's accurate to a degree but it's certainly not the bottom line.

For starters, in that article, they jetted the bikes with the same approach that was used on VM series carburetors. It's what everyone did at first because it was what they knew how to do and it worked on VM [manual throttle slide] carburetors. Lift the needle and crank up the main jet 4 or 5 sizes was the approach. It didn't work very well.

Eventually people got smarter and realized that the fuel curve needed to be corrected with a different needle taper to work properly. Once that happened, the jet kits were and remain the answer to getting CV carburetors to work with the air box removed.

I have an Ivan's jet kit in my ZRX with a Dale Walker pipe. I'll guarantee it carburetes as smooth as your 650

In the past I used pods out of necessity on my old bike when I transplanted a race engine of large displacement on a smaller frame and had no room for an airbox, but these were not CV carbs. I have never installed jet kits on CV carbs. Why would I? I would much rather ride than beat my head on a wall.

I'm sure anyone with a ZRX with a Dale Walker pipe will be happy to hear of your success with pods. Perhaps you would like to post that info on ZRXRider.com. However, most folks trying to use pods on KZ models with CV carbs run into difficulties. Judging by the number of folks posting on this site who experience bogging, etc. at various rpm levels after installing pods on CV carbs this is still true today even though jet kits are available. So, for those folks who do not own a ZRX, what jets, needles, settings, etc. will make a KZ750 with CV carbs and pods run well from idle to redline and add more power? You seemed to have omitted that info. Inquiring minds still want to know. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Ed

650ed wrote:

crh wrote:

650ed wrote:

crh wrote: To keep things in perspective you have to stop and realize that test was done before there were jet kits available.

Perhaps you can recommend jets, needles, & settings for his bike that will make it run well from idle to redline and add more power. Inquiring minds would like to know. :laugh: Ed

Let's start at the start there laughing boy....How many jet kits have you personally installed Ed???? :kiss:


On any healthy engine with CV carburetors, Jet Kits work just fine for pod filters. It's the only way to go if you want the air box gone and can't afford mechanical carbs. That article you keep referring to has merit in some respects for reasons that should be clearly obvious. It's accurate to a degree but it's certainly not the bottom line.

For starters, in that article, they jetted the bikes with the same approach that was used on VM series carburetors. It's what everyone did at first because it was what they knew how to do and it worked on VM [manual throttle slide] carburetors. Lift the needle and crank up the main jet 4 or 5 sizes was the approach. It didn't work very well.

Eventually people got smarter and realized that the fuel curve needed to be corrected with a different needle taper to work properly. Once that happened, the jet kits were and remain the answer to getting CV carburetors to work with the air box removed.

I have an Ivan's jet kit in my ZRX with a Dale Walker pipe. I'll guarantee it carburetes as smooth as your 650

In the past I used pods out of necessity on my old bike when I transplanted a race engine of large displacement on a smaller frame and had no room for an airbox, but these were not CV carbs. I have never installed jet kits on CV carbs. Why would I? I would much rather ride than beat my head on a wall.

I'm sure anyone with a ZRX with a Dale Walker pipe will be happy to hear of your success with pods. Perhaps you would like to post that info on ZRXRider.com. However, most folks trying to use pods on KZ models with CV carbs run into difficulties. Judging by the number of folks posting on this site who experience bogging, etc. at various rpm levels after installing pods on CV carbs this is still true today even though jet kits are available. So, for those folks who do not own a ZRX, what jets, needles, settings, etc. will make a KZ750 with CV carbs and pods run well from idle to redline and add more power? You seemed to have omitted that info. Inquiring minds still want to know. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Ed

I think you both have valid points. A lot of people on this site ask very common sense questions to even to a basic bike/car mechanic and I think they expect things to be bolt-on like modern car parts. Every one wants the look but no one wants to take the time to make it work.

I've gotten my bike to run very well with pods, a 4-1 MAC exhaust and a dynojet kit (with minimal tuning adjustments) and I fully believe with a couple more hrs. and vacuum gauges it will be mint. Is it faster than when the bike rolled off the show room in 82'? I don't know but it's pretty quick for a 31 year old bike. I am ok with tuning and I actually kind of enjoy it.

Jrbrownie00 wrote: I think you both have valid points. A lot of people on this site ask very common sense questions to even to a basic bike/car mechanic and I think they expect things to be bolt-on like modern car parts. Every one wants the look but no one wants to take the time to make it work.

I've gotten my bike to run very well with pods, a 4-1 MAC exhaust and a dynojet kit (with minimal tuning adjustments) and I fully believe with a couple more hrs. and vacuum gauges it will be mint. Is it faster than when the bike rolled off the show room in 82'? I don't know but it's pretty quick for a 31 year old bike. I am ok with tuning and I actually kind of enjoy it.

I agree. If there was a set formula for which jetting works well with pods for a particular engine, I'm sure some pod manufacturer would set up and sell the pods. jets, etc. as a total package deal and make big bucks doing it. (That's why I asked for the magic formula and showed the laughing face.) The point I was trying to make, and the point the article I linked to does make, is that putting pods on a bike with CV carbs is going to require quite a bit of trial & error tuning if the engine is ever going to run as smoothly throughout the rpm range as one with the stock air box, and on a stock street engine pods will not result in a power boost. That has been demonstrated to be true using the dyno tests, and I have never seen dyno tests showing pods boosting power throughout the rpm range on a stock engine. If there are such verifiable test results, no one has ever posted them or linked to them. It appears that at the very best, any minor increase in power at one rpm are offset by losses of power at other rpm.

I recognize that sometimes due to frame mods, etc. there simply is no room for an airbox (been there) and pods are the only alternative. However, I believe anyone who already has an airbox and swaps it out for pods for the sole purpose of increasing power is in for a disappointment. Ed

This thread makes me not know what I wanna do! :lol: :silly:

I plan on rebuilding the Carbs anyways and cleaning them up real nice. Maybe I'll buy the pods and Jet Kit just to see what happens.

Hell I can always put it back the way it was

Boy's I'm on the hunt for as much POWA as I can get haha withou a Turbo :evil:

So glad I found this forum, glad to be here :lol: