Clarification On A Couple Of Issues

It looks to me that Joe at Pit Stop performance puts the base gasket on dry, yet literally glues the top end together. It also looked to me when I was trying to scrape that cylinder base gasket from hell off of my J motor that it was glued on at the factory. There are still tiny, thin pieces stuck to my engine block. I assembled it with the base gasket dry, and have seen no evidence of any leakage from the base gasket. The overpriced oval o-rings is a different story. :S



Joe's top end assembly procedure:

www.pitstopperformance.com/top-end-assembly/

zed1015 wrote: In 40 years of building these engines I have never used any sealer around those studs and have never had an issue with oil leaks or weepage of any kind.
This is on both road and race engines.

I think they mean as a thread sealer on the stud threads where they thread into the case, since the studs are exposed in the cooling fin area or the threads are open to engine oil internally.

old_kaw wrote:

zed1015 wrote: In 40 years of building these engines I have never used any sealer around those studs and have never had an issue with oil leaks or weepage of any kind.
This is on both road and race engines.

I think they mean as a thread sealer on the stud threads where they thread into the case, since the studs are exposed in the cooling fin area or the threads are open to engine oil internally.

I do use a spot of thread lock on the main studs but that's it.
No sealer and all those studs on the 900/1000's are in dry blind holes.

old_kaw wrote: ...have seen no evidence of any leakage from the base gasket. The overpriced oval o-rings is a different story. :S

After dealing with that issue twice, APE HD cylinder studs and nuts (40ft.lbs torque) eradicated the problem. IMO the old original cyl. studs lose strength and resistance to stretch over time and repeated use.

daveo wrote:

old_kaw wrote: ...have seen no evidence of any leakage from the base gasket. The overpriced oval o-rings is a different story. :S

After dealing with that issue twice, APE HD cylinder studs and nuts (40ft.lbs torque) eradicated the problem. IMO the old original cyl. studs lose strength and resistance to stretch over time and repeated use.

40 ft lbs sounds kind of high. Unless I'm missing something (a real possibility) the Kawasaki Service Manual gives a lower figure. Ed

40 PSI is the spec for the APE studs. That's what I have now. With the stock studs I'd cringe each time I'd torque them down even at the factory settings. The last thing I wanted was to torque one down and hear the dreaded SNAP. :pinch: This time around I'll use thread locker on them.
Steve

I've snapped a crank bolt and a couple of case bolts but never a stud. The spec for Z1 is 25 ft lbs. It was increased to 29 ft lbs for KZ 1000 but I think the studs are the same.

650ed wrote:

daveo wrote:

After dealing with that issue twice, APE HD cylinder studs and nuts (40ft.lbs torque) eradicated the problem. IMO the old original cyl. studs lose strength and resistance to stretch over time and repeated use[/i].

40 ft lbs sounds kind of high. Unless I'm missing something (a real possibility) the Kawasaki Service Manual gives a lower figure. Ed

To look at stock and APE cyl. studs set next to one another, it might be assumed that 40ft. lbs. would be the minimum torque they could handle. :whistle:
Never measured shaft diameters when comparing them, but it is obvious to the eye that APE studs have significantly more girth. With that in-mind and without a second thought, I bored the tapers out of the oil passage holes in my last two cyl. blocks unscientifically to compensate for the additional space the APE's take up in there.

zed1015 wrote: I think they mean as a thread sealer on the stud threads where they thread into the case, since the studs are exposed in the cooling fin area or the threads are open to engine oil internally.

I do use a spot of thread lock on the main studs but that's it.
No sealer and all those studs on the 900/1000's are in dry blind holes.[/quote]

There is nothing wrong with using loctite. If there is no chance of leakage, there is no need to seal them. I am assuming the reason KHI would specify sealing the studs, if there were a chance of leakage.
As previously stated, everyone has their own procedures. We used to coat SBC intake and exhaust gaskets with grease at a shop I worked at. The boss specified it, and threw a fit if you didn't do it right. :woohoo: Much easier to deal with if the need to go back in arises.

daveo wrote: After dealing with that issue twice, APE HD cylinder studs and nuts (40ft.lbs torque) eradicated the problem. IMO the old original cyl. studs lose strength and resistance to stretch over time and repeated use.

I totally agree. After 4o + years of rebuilds and re-torquing, those studs have got to be stretched beyond any maximum value. At almost $160 for the sets of APE studs and nuts, it is a moderately substantial investment.

You are safe to go to 32lbs on the stock studs and 42lbs on the HD ones..
Kawa increased the factory torque early on from 25lb to 29lb because of gasket leakage.
Anyone with an old manual should ignore the 25lb figure and use 29lb .

APE specifically states to use 42ftlbs with their heavy duty studs. They are super strong, the fail-point then becomes the threads in the crankcases.