Z1 valve seals exploded - why?

old_kaw, it could be or not a scissors clamp.
The truth comes with the suspected valve spring and retainer removed to get a closer look to the squezzed valve stem seal or what is left of it.

Scirocco wrote: old_kaw, it could be or not a scissors clamp.
The truth comes with the suspected valve spring and retainer removed to get a closer look to the squezzed valve stem seal or what is left of it.

Now there ya go making perfect sense again. I am having trouble with relating the bends in the wire remnants to the seal retainer ring.. being bent in perfect relationship resembling a scissors hose clamp.. The likelihood of a seal retainer ring mangled in that exact configuration, rather than just chewed up.. but some things I see some days, couldn't / wouldn't happen even if I tried.

I'm guessing here, by seeing al lot of the discussion is on valve spring compressors, and the head being already off, I would assume the OP already knows if the valve seal retaining rings is still on the valve guide. (just a wild guess here, since most of the posts on these topics are speculation and guessing games using half of the info through someone else's eyes )



This is my valve spring compressor bought many years ago, and an adapter I made up to fit the Kaw head. Also note, the parts area also covered with rags when not being worked on.



I had to make a few mods to the adapter I made to make it hold the retainer straight while assembling the head. (It's just a slotted piece of 3/4" EMT)

The scissors clamp ring form can be a product by coincidence and wishful thinking.
All speculative until now....
emy111 will post some facts if the suspected parts are removed.

Scirocco wrote: The scissors clamp ring form can be a product by coincidence and wishful thinking.
All speculative until now....
emy111 will post some facts if the suspected parts are removed.

Wishful thinking? um yeah. Wishful to make sense out of this "mystery" wire . While specalating away! lol

I too, like the old style original's. For my stuff sits around for 10 yrs. at a time (LOL)
But I am going to install some later tonight. I grease up the valve tips and use a 10mm deep socket to push them on.

Sorry for the long delay.
I finally pulled the valves out.
Bunch of the valves had broken / shattered inner valve springs as seen in below photo.
And those valves that did.... the valve seals were totally shredded and gone.

My guess is those few times I missed a shift and over-revved, or shifted at 10k rpm racing someone eventually added up... bummer.
I was using APE valve springs.
Figured it’d be fine. Guess not.
I normally just ride around low rpm cruising... but like to rip on it every once in a blue moon.

Oh well...
I’ll rebuild, and take it a bit easier.

Any other thoughts guys.... ?

Check the valve guides for "Rock". That retainer looks as it needs replaced. :dry:
Steve

emy111 wrote: Sorry for the long delay.


My guess is those few times I missed a shift and over-revved, or shifted at 10k rpm racing someone eventually added up... bummer.
I was using APE valve springs.
Figured it’d be fine. Guess not.
I normally just ride around low rpm cruising... but like to rip on it every once in a blue moon

Any other thoughts guys.... ?

Perhaps use OEM parts? All the neato stuff >seems< like an upgrade, and sometimes might even save you a little bit of money.. until you ruin an engine because it all turns into um.. this. and to top it off, they NEVER cover the damages caused by using the super duper stuff. Your loss, their gains.. time and time again.. If you tell them about it, it is ALWAYS something YOU did.. yeah you bought their crap.
An acquaintance dropped a exhaust valve on an 89 evo softail that I repaired years ago . It had the moroso valve retainers.. they broke / shattered and he dropped a valve into the rear jug at high rpms. I repaired it using oem parts. There is a reason the hi-performance stuff says on the package, "for off road use only".

BTW, I have also missed shifts, but NEVER break anything. The reason OEM parts usually cost more is because they are higher quality than the aftermarket stuff.. It also has to make it through the warranty period. For an OEM to use cheap parts, would mean too much warranty work, and a bad reputation in the industry.

Looks like either the retainers have been hitting the top of the guides , the springs have broken due to persistent over revving or they have been coil bound and then the fragments have destroyed the seals.
If it's due to over revving it wouldn't matter whether the springs were OEM or APE except the OEM would have broke sooner.
You also need to check the guide to retainer clearance with the cam lift you have to make sure that isn't the cause.

zed1015 wrote: Looks like either the retainers have been hitting the top of the guides , the springs have broken due to persistent over revving or they have been coil bound and then the fragments have destroyed the seals.
If it's due to over revving it wouldn't matter whether the springs were OEM or APE except the OEM would have broke sooner.
You also need to check the guide to retainer clearance with the cam lift you have to make sure that isn't the cause.

The retainer has definitely hit the guide a few times.

As far as OEM part breaking before a aftermarket part, is pure speculation. In the "ours is better" game they probably harden them a little more, which in turn makes the metal brittle and more prone to breakage rather than bending.

I bought some "neato" ARP rod bolts to use on a turbo Buick motor I built using a brand new 109 block ~20 years ago. It had a girdle and all of the neat stuff to make it a "blow proof" motor. Well, when I was torquing down the connecting rods to stock spec, the rod bolts were stretching, rather than clicking my torque wrench. I tried this with 2 different sets of ARP bolts, until I gave up and went back to the OEM SPS brand fasteners. I also had my machinist come over to see for himself, since I bought the rod sets from him.. he even tried it himself, just to make sure I wasn't using my brand new torque wrench wrong. (like I was taught in college?) He took them back and returned them to ARP. My point being hardness levels can vary, and not every part produced is as advertised. Also, it is ultimately up to you, since YOU are the one that will be the one walking home and paying the repair bill.

And during the process.. "Oh LOOK lunch time, let em air cool". lol



They NEVER warranty their stuff. It's ALWAYS something YOU did. I usually measure the success of my repairs in miles rather than minutes.

See what the guys at APE have to say on the failure. Might want to upgrade to a dyna 2000 ignition with the rev limiter if over-rev was the cause.