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Upgrade to Bigbore Pistons
- gordone
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12 Dec 2017 07:00 - 12 Dec 2017 07:03 #775888
by gordone
1981 KZ650-D4, with 1981 z750L engine (Wiensco 810 big bore).
Project:
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/607213...sr-1981-z750l-engine
Upgrade to Bigbore Pistons was created by gordone
No eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationWe have talken about these in another threat, but want to split it:
www.kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/607482-cy...ndition?limitstart=0
I have a bike with 81 KZ750-4 engine & VM24 (from 650 engine). The bike has worked fin with current carb setup.
These winter I`m overhaul the engine and I need to do a job with the cylinders. The question is shall I upgrade to
bigbore pistons, at the same time....
Will I got problem to make the engine rune find? with my VM24 carbs?
1. How much more power?
2. Negative side of doing it?
I have been given a link:
Cheap but they are maybe good quality?
Thank you all.
www.kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/607482-cy...ndition?limitstart=0
I have a bike with 81 KZ750-4 engine & VM24 (from 650 engine). The bike has worked fin with current carb setup.
These winter I`m overhaul the engine and I need to do a job with the cylinders. The question is shall I upgrade to
bigbore pistons, at the same time....
Will I got problem to make the engine rune find? with my VM24 carbs?
1. How much more power?
2. Negative side of doing it?
I have been given a link:
Cheap but they are maybe good quality?
Thank you all.
1981 KZ650-D4, with 1981 z750L engine (Wiensco 810 big bore).
Project:
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/607213...sr-1981-z750l-engine
Last edit: 12 Dec 2017 07:03 by gordone.
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- SWest
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- 10 22 2014
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12 Dec 2017 08:13 #775892
by SWest
Replied by SWest on topic Upgrade to Bigbore Pistons
I went from 903 to 1015 in 78. I would only buy the Wiseco piston kit knowing the quality and performance over some cheap ones. From what I've seen, the cheap ones have stock compression while the Wiseco's are 10.25/1 and lasted 20 years. Can the cheapo's make that claim? All I had to do was minor jetting and RODE THE PISS OUT OF IT. :woohoo:
Steve
Steve
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- martin_csr
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12 Dec 2017 08:42 - 12 Dec 2017 13:07 #775893
by martin_csr
Replied by martin_csr on topic Upgrade to Bigbore Pistons
Wiseco Piston 69.00 4186M06900 for Kawasaki
.... ebay. discounted. seems like a good buy.
Ape Racing --- main page
Ape Racing >>> Kaw KZ/GPz >>> KZ Zone
Ape Racing >>> Kaw KZ/GPz >>> KZ Zone >>> pistons
Inexpensive piston kits >>> piston & piston ring quality unknown. risky.
From what others have posted, you especially do not want to scrimp on the piston rings.
Inexpensive piston kits. Further reading. Related topics.
KZRider --- 750 810cc special coated pistons
KZRider --- New 810cc kit available from Japan ....Important note: Japanese distributor but not made in Japan.
KZRider --- kz750e Resto-Mod by daftrusty ... Inexpensive piston kits. see first post. if sharp edges. file down the sharp edges.
as a side note. and for curiosity's sake. if I bought them, I would figure out their density. just for the heck of it. probably can't deduce anything from that, but just for the heck of it.
Ape Racing --- main page
Ape Racing >>> Kaw KZ/GPz >>> KZ Zone
Ape Racing >>> Kaw KZ/GPz >>> KZ Zone >>> pistons
Inexpensive piston kits >>> piston & piston ring quality unknown. risky.
From what others have posted, you especially do not want to scrimp on the piston rings.
Inexpensive piston kits. Further reading. Related topics.
KZRider --- 750 810cc special coated pistons
KZRider --- New 810cc kit available from Japan ....Important note: Japanese distributor but not made in Japan.
KZRider --- kz750e Resto-Mod by daftrusty ... Inexpensive piston kits. see first post. if sharp edges. file down the sharp edges.
as a side note. and for curiosity's sake. if I bought them, I would figure out their density. just for the heck of it. probably can't deduce anything from that, but just for the heck of it.
Last edit: 12 Dec 2017 13:07 by martin_csr.
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- Kray-Z
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- I need more power Scotty....
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12 Dec 2017 10:21 #775902
by Kray-Z
2-04 R1, 81 CSR1000, 81 LTD1000, 2-83 GPz1100, 3-79CBX, 81 CBX, 3-XS650, 84 Venture, +parts
Quote "speed costs money...how fast do you want to go?" (Which Z movie?)
Universal formula for how many motorcycles one should own = n + 1, where n is how many motorcycles you own right now....
Replied by Kray-Z on topic Upgrade to Bigbore Pistons
I think the Cruzin Image kits are made in India or Pakistan - where labor is like 20 cents / day! That comp[ares to Japan's $35 / hour and up for tech labor....
If you can afford it, go with Wiseco or MTC big bore kits. Proven parts. If you can't, like I said, I haven't heard anything terribly bad about the Cruzin Image kits yet....just keep in mind that you will have to be extra careful to inspect the parts and you might have to do a little filing, de-burring, and corner smoothing, but that goes for any parts you are going to put in your engine anyway. In fact, I've heard more complaints about "Hot Cams" parts (ATV's and dirt bikes) quality and durability than the cheap "Cruzin Image" stuff....but I can't speak for myself, as I haven't had any of my rebuild engines F - up yet.....and I haven't personally installed a Cruzin Image kit yet, either. I might gamble on some Cruzin Image or other cheapo pistons next time some hipster CB550 SOHC Bobber / Cafe / Hacker owner calls looking for a $200 engine re-build, though. Gotta love those calls....
Big bore kits alone usually do not require major re-jetting or carb tuning, only minor tuning. With 24 mm carbs, you will not gain much peak power. You should notice a boost in low rpm and mid rpm torque.
If you can afford it, go with Wiseco or MTC big bore kits. Proven parts. If you can't, like I said, I haven't heard anything terribly bad about the Cruzin Image kits yet....just keep in mind that you will have to be extra careful to inspect the parts and you might have to do a little filing, de-burring, and corner smoothing, but that goes for any parts you are going to put in your engine anyway. In fact, I've heard more complaints about "Hot Cams" parts (ATV's and dirt bikes) quality and durability than the cheap "Cruzin Image" stuff....but I can't speak for myself, as I haven't had any of my rebuild engines F - up yet.....and I haven't personally installed a Cruzin Image kit yet, either. I might gamble on some Cruzin Image or other cheapo pistons next time some hipster CB550 SOHC Bobber / Cafe / Hacker owner calls looking for a $200 engine re-build, though. Gotta love those calls....
Big bore kits alone usually do not require major re-jetting or carb tuning, only minor tuning. With 24 mm carbs, you will not gain much peak power. You should notice a boost in low rpm and mid rpm torque.
2-04 R1, 81 CSR1000, 81 LTD1000, 2-83 GPz1100, 3-79CBX, 81 CBX, 3-XS650, 84 Venture, +parts
Quote "speed costs money...how fast do you want to go?" (Which Z movie?)
Universal formula for how many motorcycles one should own = n + 1, where n is how many motorcycles you own right now....
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- Nessism
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12 Dec 2017 10:44 #775904
by Nessism
Replied by Nessism on topic Upgrade to Bigbore Pistons
Maybe my concern is unfounded but I've never been too thrilled with boring the liners out to the max limit. Less material means less stability in terms of roundness and taper, so unless you are looking for max power going +3mm isn't ideal in my mind. That said, the Wiseco big bore kits have an excellent reputation so maybe 3mm overbore is no worry. I'm not sure. Personally, I'd just go the conservative route and bore to the min possible to clean things up.
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- gordone
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12 Dec 2017 10:54 #775906
by gordone
1981 KZ650-D4, with 1981 z750L engine (Wiensco 810 big bore).
Project:
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/607213...sr-1981-z750l-engine
Replied by gordone on topic Upgrade to Bigbore Pistons
Thank you all, also your feedback Nessism, I like to look at both "sides" before I doing something
Is there not anybody other who has done the same as we talking about here many years ago ?
Some experience?
I will not run the bike hard all the time, so still if I have more power it will not be used all the time..
I will send a email to the workshop and ask about the stability.
Is there not anybody other who has done the same as we talking about here many years ago ?
Some experience?
I will not run the bike hard all the time, so still if I have more power it will not be used all the time..
I will send a email to the workshop and ask about the stability.
1981 KZ650-D4, with 1981 z750L engine (Wiensco 810 big bore).
Project:
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/607213...sr-1981-z750l-engine
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- Kray-Z
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- I need more power Scotty....
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12 Dec 2017 13:48 #775919
by Kray-Z
2-04 R1, 81 CSR1000, 81 LTD1000, 2-83 GPz1100, 3-79CBX, 81 CBX, 3-XS650, 84 Venture, +parts
Quote "speed costs money...how fast do you want to go?" (Which Z movie?)
Universal formula for how many motorcycles one should own = n + 1, where n is how many motorcycles you own right now....
Replied by Kray-Z on topic Upgrade to Bigbore Pistons
It is typical for big bore engines to run hotter than stock. Even the old thick cylinder wall car V-8's (352 Ford "FE", for example) ran hotter with the typical 0.030" overbore so widely accepted in that industry. That, and heavy throttle hands, are really the only problems with reliability that I know of. If you don't abuse or overheat the engine, it should last nearly as long as a stock engine. The engineers that design the kits are very careful in determining what the maximum safe overbore is for normal street use. I've re-used Wiseco big bore pistons without concern, just a quick brush / ball hone, replace the rings, and thoroughly clean the pistons and re-install.....some Wiseco street kits I know of have over 30K miles on them and are still going on the 1st set of rings....I can't say the same for most of the stock KZ1000J's and GPz1100's I've seen....
2-04 R1, 81 CSR1000, 81 LTD1000, 2-83 GPz1100, 3-79CBX, 81 CBX, 3-XS650, 84 Venture, +parts
Quote "speed costs money...how fast do you want to go?" (Which Z movie?)
Universal formula for how many motorcycles one should own = n + 1, where n is how many motorcycles you own right now....
The following user(s) said Thank You: SWest
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- hugo
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- '92 Zephyr 750
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12 Dec 2017 16:32 #775929
by hugo
Replied by hugo on topic Upgrade to Bigbore Pistons
....and this is an air cooled engine. More power, more heat,........in a liquid cooled engine, the thermostat would open longer and more often to compensate, but here....... this is what you get with the extra power.
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- zukdave
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12 Dec 2017 18:51 #775938
by zukdave
1980 KZ650 F1
ZX750A1 motor.
Wiseco 810cc kit.
Zukiworks racing ported head.
VM 29 smooth bore's.
Dyna 2000 Ign. w/Dyna mini coil's
APE cylinder stud's and nut's.
APE valve spring's.
APE Track King clutch.
V/H KZ1000 sidewinder.
3.5x18 laced to a KZ1000 disk hub.
150/60/18 Shinko 006 Podium.
63" wheel base.
Replied by zukdave on topic Upgrade to Bigbore Pistons
I run a Wiseco 810 kit in my ZX750A1 motor and on the street or at the drag strip I've NEVER had an over heat issue
related to the big bore. I'm say this based on REAL WORLD I beat the dog shit out of this bike I am not nice to it when I ride it.
As for the cheap piston kit's hey it's your motor but you'll never find one in my shop.
related to the big bore. I'm say this based on REAL WORLD I beat the dog shit out of this bike I am not nice to it when I ride it.
As for the cheap piston kit's hey it's your motor but you'll never find one in my shop.
1980 KZ650 F1
ZX750A1 motor.
Wiseco 810cc kit.
Zukiworks racing ported head.
VM 29 smooth bore's.
Dyna 2000 Ign. w/Dyna mini coil's
APE cylinder stud's and nut's.
APE valve spring's.
APE Track King clutch.
V/H KZ1000 sidewinder.
3.5x18 laced to a KZ1000 disk hub.
150/60/18 Shinko 006 Podium.
63" wheel base.
The following user(s) said Thank You: SWest
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- gordone
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13 Dec 2017 07:37 #775961
by gordone
1981 KZ650-D4, with 1981 z750L engine (Wiensco 810 big bore).
Project:
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/607213...sr-1981-z750l-engine
Replied by gordone on topic Upgrade to Bigbore Pistons
I think have landed on +0.5mm piston instead of bigbore.
In Norway you are not allow to increase the power without get it approval.... and I think I`m happy with the performance for now.
So now my questions is what shall I choice of oversize +0.5mm pistons....
I started a fresh threat about it:
kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/607519-750cc-oversize-piston-0-5mm
In Norway you are not allow to increase the power without get it approval.... and I think I`m happy with the performance for now.
So now my questions is what shall I choice of oversize +0.5mm pistons....
I started a fresh threat about it:
kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/607519-750cc-oversize-piston-0-5mm
1981 KZ650-D4, with 1981 z750L engine (Wiensco 810 big bore).
Project:
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/607213...sr-1981-z750l-engine
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- gordone
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13 Dec 2017 13:29 #775986
by gordone
1981 KZ650-D4, with 1981 z750L engine (Wiensco 810 big bore).
Project:
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/607213...sr-1981-z750l-engine
Replied by gordone on topic Upgrade to Bigbore Pistons
I want to thank you all for sharing your experience and knowledge.
You can call me "chicken", but I take I go for the safe way at these point...
Again thank you all !
You can call me "chicken", but I take I go for the safe way at these point...
Again thank you all !
1981 KZ650-D4, with 1981 z750L engine (Wiensco 810 big bore).
Project:
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/607213...sr-1981-z750l-engine
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- zukdave
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13 Dec 2017 16:30 #776002
by zukdave
1980 KZ650 F1
ZX750A1 motor.
Wiseco 810cc kit.
Zukiworks racing ported head.
VM 29 smooth bore's.
Dyna 2000 Ign. w/Dyna mini coil's
APE cylinder stud's and nut's.
APE valve spring's.
APE Track King clutch.
V/H KZ1000 sidewinder.
3.5x18 laced to a KZ1000 disk hub.
150/60/18 Shinko 006 Podium.
63" wheel base.
Replied by zukdave on topic Upgrade to Bigbore Pistons
As to what size you need to take the cylinder block off the motor and take it to a machine shop and have it checked
before buying pistons.
before buying pistons.
1980 KZ650 F1
ZX750A1 motor.
Wiseco 810cc kit.
Zukiworks racing ported head.
VM 29 smooth bore's.
Dyna 2000 Ign. w/Dyna mini coil's
APE cylinder stud's and nut's.
APE valve spring's.
APE Track King clutch.
V/H KZ1000 sidewinder.
3.5x18 laced to a KZ1000 disk hub.
150/60/18 Shinko 006 Podium.
63" wheel base.
The following user(s) said Thank You: gordone
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