Kz750 E. Ignition Timing is not right.

So the cam timing is off too. I hope you didn't nick any valves.
Steve :dry:

I deleted you double posts. Can I permanently delete them? I have to ask.
Steve

yes delete them. sorry and im dont think valves hit. it ran smooth and spun freely

Done. I hope not, it's easy to do.
Steve

Well people. i got the right advancer and surely it was different. luckily i got the timing right when i did it. and now the bike runs great!. so great the clutch slips now yay!.
while taking everything appart to chek timing i found another little thing that i think might actualy been my problem and not my advancer. maybe they both contributed to the problem.
my coils where extremely cracked. and needed replacement haha i decided to go ahead and order some Dyna coils for the extra Boom they give.

thanks for all the help!!! im glad this is over i still need to fine tune everything and get the bike doooonee.

How did you do the timing with the 1013 advancer?

The 005 advancer has both the 1-4 and the 2-3 tick marks, whereas the the 1013 advancer has only the 1-4 tick marks, and then just a "T" on the opposite end.

I have a dyna s ds2-2 and the 1013 advancer, and i can't figure out how to do the 2-3 timing. (The dyne S instructions assume i have these 2-3 tick marks)

1980 KZ750E 4cyl

I'd measure the F mark from the T mark and transfer it to the other side. How can you set points without a F mark?
Steve
Steve

I wonder if that advancer is meant to be used with the later points that are screwed directly to the backplate?

The earlier ones, like my '77 KZ650, are set up such that each pair of points can be individually adjusted for both dwell (the gap) and timing. This is because each pair of points is mounted to a small plate, and those two plates are then mounted to the backplate. In addition to being able to rotate the backplate on the engine, each of those two small plates can be rotated several degrees on the backplate, and this allows you to adjust the timing of each set of points independently. See 1st image below.

The later points setup is one where the points are mounted directly to the backplate. You can still adjust the points gap when you mount them, but there is no provision for rotating either set of points on the backplate. You set the timing by rotating the backplate on the engine, but since both sets of points are firmly affixed to the backplate they cannot be adjusted independently. With this setup once you set the timing for 1&4 the timing for 2&3 are also set. Consequently, you don't need an "F" mark for 2&3. See 2nd image below. Ed

For reference --





See also:
www.kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/599729-ti...-2-and-1013-advancer

Patton wrote:

The pick-up modules usually come already pre-set at 180° orientation between them.
Hence, when the 1/4 F mark aligns, the 2/3 F mark should self-align.

For ultra-fine tuning -- which usually isn't needed -- each pick-up module may be individually adjusted within a narrow range.
To do this on 2/3 without an F mark, could carefully inscribe an F mark the exact same distance from the T mark as is provided on the 1/4 side of the advancer.

If the pick-up modules are still in their original positions, would not alter their individual settings, and simply set the timing at idle by aligning the 1/4 F mark with the case mark. Would expect this to be sufficient in the majority of new Dyna-S installations.

If the dual marks on the advancer fail to align at 4000 rpm, the timing may be adjusted slightly forward or backward to attain the advanced timing position per the installation instructions provided from Dyna-S....

Patton wrote:

kawasakisubaru wrote: 1980 KZ750 E1 . . . The problem is, on my 1013 advancer:
one side has a T mark, an F mark and two marks for the 1-4
the other side has just a T mark, and no other marks for the 2-3 . . . .

Am thinking that ignition timing on the the bike at hand was permanently set at the factory and not intended for further adjustment. And guessing that the stock timing plate is in a fixed position without any slots allowing adjustments in either direction. Such arrangement allows for "checking" the timing, but not for "adjusting" the timing. Which may explain the absence of marks other than the T mark on the 2/3 side of the advancer....

Good Fortune!

In my Dyna S instructions, it said to set the timing by eye at the F mark. Then use a timing light at 3500 RPM or full advance and fine tune them with the full advance mark on each side. There have been comments on how stupid this is. Basically you're setting the timing at full advance, then depending on the advance unit (springs etc.) to return back to idle. I'll try to dig mine up to show. If you follow the instructions and the bike runs, you can adjust 2&3 using this method as long as there is a advance mark. If not, scribe your own, F and advance measuring the distance on the other side. I did have to move the 2&3 trigger slightly to get it right.
Steve

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but this subject came up as a side note in another thread.
www.kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/609172-refuses-to-fire#790190

The reason the timing was so far off with the wrong advancer is that this was a points advancer converted to be used with electronic advance. You can tell this because points advancers have two full sets of timing marks. The advancers designed for electronic ignition only have a "T" mark for cylinders 2 and 3.

The result is, if you stick with the convention of pointing the rotor toward the "TEC" logo, it will be 180 degrees out plus several more degrees out. So even if you install it so it is not 180 out, (as was done to the one in the photo), it will still be off by several degrees due to the rotor position difference between points cam and electronic pointer.

You can fix this by removing the rotor and pressing off the iron pointer and then pressing it back on in the appropriate position. This means the rotor is now modified and won't conform to the correct advancer until it is restored to original position but can be used on points advancers.