If You Think You Don't Need ZDDP In the Oil

Imteresting topic! Something i never thought about either. Whats the thoughts on this Castrol Oil then?

www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericar...37&contentId=6006047

I buy it in a 25L Drum for my race bike (the Racing 10w/40 version www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericar...51&contentId=7018614 )

They're JASO MA2 rated so they should work very well. Ed

RonKZ650 wrote: The more I researched this problem, the more it isn't a problem. Bob is the oil guy forums have all kinds of oil analysis from virgin samples of most oils showing the zinc level which is generally 1000-1500ppm on modern oil.

Unless the Zinc Fairy is coming along and sprinkling it into the oil, those values are wrong. That is not what you will get in SM or SN service grade oil (newest grades).

I no longer drink the BITOG cool-aid for this and other reasons, but I guarantee you the newest oils do not have those levels of ZDDP.

www.aa1car.com/library/api_motor_oil_classifications.htm

If you are driving an older classic muscle car or hot rod that has an engine with a flat tappet camshaft, you should be aware of the fact that today's SM and SN rated motor oils contain much lower levels of anti-scuff additive called "ZDDP" (Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphate). The level of ZDDP in current motor oils has been reduced to no more than 0.08% phosphorus to extend the life of the catalytic converter.

NOTE: .08% = 800 ppm

Both the new API SN and GM dexos oil standards will require the use of a new type of “Phosphorus Retention” ZDP. ZDP or Zinc, as it is known, provides protection for engine components by creating a phosphate film. The creation of this phosphate film also results in a reduction of performance in Three Way Catalytic Converters. The new “Phosphorus Retention” ZDP is less reactive, so it is less detrimental to catalytic converter performance. It is unknown how this new “Phosphorus Retention” ZDP will perform in flat-tappet and high performance engines.

/////

More than ever before, hot rodders, engine builders, and racers need to be aware that API rated products are “compromised” due to Passenger Car OEM requirements for improved catalytic converter life, fuel economy, and engine cleanliness.

www.joegibbsdriven.com/trainingcenter/tech/motoroilchange.html

From a recent similar post:

3 UOAs I did earlier this year showed Zinc levels at:

Rotella T 10W-30 1193
Rotella 15W-40 1145
Rotella 15W-40 1051

ok...its cheap and better than other oils...for an oil geek, its exciting.
I use it in my turbo diesel as well.

Medina wrote:

From a recent similar post:

3 UOAs I did earlier this year showed Zinc levels at:

Rotella T 10W-30 1193
Rotella 15W-40 1145
Rotella 15W-40 1051

ok...its cheap and better than other oils...for an oil geek, its exciting.
I use it in my turbo diesel as well.

Rotella is diesel rated and is one of VERY FEW oils that retain decent zinc levels..... at the present time. As for how long? They can't make the new API service ratings for passenger cars with it that high. Interesting to see how long until it's no longer available.

NOT ALL "ZINC" IS CREATED EQUAL:

If the oil is just quoting a number for zinc content, watch out: it gets complicated with the new oils because they are pulling other tricks to eliminate the effect of zinc.

Zinc vs. Detergent



While the reduction of zinc, phosphorus and sulfur in today’s motor oils is a significant change,there is more to the story. Specifically, the detergent additives used in modern oils have also changed. Here are some key facts about zinc and detergents and how they work.

ALL "ZINC" IS NOT THE SAME

The oil additive Zinc DialkylDithioPhosphate (ZDDP) works because it is a polar molecule, so it is attracted to ferrous metal surfaces. However, Zinc (ZDDP) is not a lubricant until heat and load are applied. ZDDP must react with heat and load to create the sacrificial film that allows ZDDP to protect flat-tappet camshafts and other highly loaded engine parts. The Society of Automotive Engineers’ Automotive Lubricants Reference Book states,“ZDDP is the predominant anti-wear additive used in crankcase oils, although it is a class of additive rather than one particular chemical..” Not all ZDDP additives are the same. Some zinc additives have slower “burn” rates that require more heat and more load to activate than other zinc additives.

As a result, not all “High Zinc” oils have the same activation rate. The Joe Gibbs Driven BR
Break-In oil uses a “Fast Burn” ZDDP that activates quickly.

THE CRITICAL BALANCE OF DETERGENTS TO ZINC

Detergents and dispersants in the oil complicate the situation. Detergent and dispersant
additives “compete” against zinc in the engine because they are polar molecules as well.
Detergents and dispersants clean the engine, but they don’t distinguish between sludge,
varnish and zinc – they clean all three away. Modern API certified oils contain higher levels of detergents and dispersants due to the exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) systems on passenger cars and diesel trucks. The “old school” theory on engine break-in was to run non-detergent oils, and this allowed for greater activation of the zinc additive in the oil.
Joe Gibbs Driven BR Break-In oils utilize the correct balance of anti-wear additives and
detergents, so you don’t need to buy expensive additives to try to “fix” a low zinc (ZDDP) oil.

www.g503.com/advertising/oil-spec.pdf

I guess we all better just quit driving our older cars/trucks/bikes and start driving honda civics with roller cams.
Ive seen the light old kz's are doomed ,im gonna team up with OMR and start creating a roller cam/lifter conversion for harley davidsons since theyre the only bike out there Im aware of that readily available and still uses pushrods to allow the room for roller cam/lifters! :woohoo:
Im also going to buy major stock in crane cams roller cam/lifter division.
forget nukes,the russains are going to take out flat tappet cams/lifters without having to fire a shot! :sick: :woohoo:

If I still had my old '53 Chevy I would either run racing oil in that 235ci straight 6 or not rev it up to 9,000 rpm like my KZ650. :woohoo: :laugh:

Ive solved the problem,screw zddp!
As long as weve got min wax/cwf/bere or thompsons we'll never have to worry about cam lobes again.
Hows that possible you ask?
Very simple kids,Im gonna buy myself a harbor freight bench top lathes and team up with krazy1 tostart making "Billet Oak" camshafts and walnut inlayed lifters!
We'll call em "woodies" :woohoo:

Oak cams won't work. Just make them out of pure zinc and you won't need the additive. You can call them Z-cams.

damarble wrote:
I'm a fan of Rotella, I suppose the next step is to see if I can find out what is (or isn't) in it.

+1 Rotella T in my KZ and the Goldwing....

650ed wrote: Oak cams won't work. Just make them out of pure zinc and you won't need the additive. You can call them Z-cams.

Theyd be too heavy! :laugh: