TOP END CLEANER?

2 cents from me

If an engine had heavy carbon on the back side of the valves, it's time for seals and quite possibly guides anyway.

When that carbon comes loose, some of it has to get mashed between the valve face and the seat. That's never a good thing.

To me, if you're going to go that route, you may as well take a little extra time and to the coil mod also. One good band-aid deserves another

JMO

Larry C

I think that there is real danger of a few things even if these cleaners do what they (or others) claim to do.

Assuming you do succeed in loosening carbon particles from the valves, pistton, combustion chamber etc...

Where does all this junk go? 3 places.

- Washed down in between the piston and cylinder where it can jam ring gaps, ring grooves and score the cylinder (rock-hard carbon can actually scratch steel and act as a nasty abrasive!)

- Smashed between the valve and the seat where it holds the valve open or diminishes the ability to retain a good seal.

- Out the exhaust (you hope).


Do it right. Physically remove the carbon by taking apart your engine and cleaning it, then address the reason you have carbon buildup.


-Dave

Anyone have some old carboned up pistons and valves laying around? If so, why not wet them with some Seafoam, Mopar top end cleaner, and/or BG44K to see if it dissovles the carbon? It would be good to know if those chemicals could be used even if an engine is torn down to remove carbon. I suspect it would be more fun to sit back and drink beer while the chemicals do the work than to slave away with wire brushes, etc. removing carbon mechanically. Ed

Some interesting discussion and pics in this earlier thread:

Click > kzrider.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&...ew&catid=2&id=357990

Good Fortune!

larrycavan wrote:

2 cents from me

If an engine had heavy carbon on the back side of the valves, it's time for seals and quite possibly guides anyway.

When that carbon comes loose, some of it has to get mashed between the valve face and the seat. That's never a good thing.

To me, if you're going to go that route, you may as well take a little extra time and to the coil mod also. One good band-aid deserves another

JMO

Larry C

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I agree with beefsquaher sort of...

I was taught (by some racers :blush: dont thrash me), that a properly tuned engine will build up carbon "where it is supposed to".
Like the carbon ring that forms around the top of the cylinder, and how it actually does improve compression.
You can take apart a stock engine in good tune, clean all the carbon and carbon ring out of it, (not replace a thing) and you actually lose some compression till the carbon builds back up, which usually takes a while.

If your compression is good, and engine is tuned well, then why run crap through it to remove carbon?? I don't get it? It seems like a cash grab to me.
I've got a Toyota 1.5 liter with 367000 miles. Never ran any cleaner crap through it... still has good compression.

Got old bikes that have been running for 30+ years on origional equipment. Still have fantastic compression - no cleaners used, just changed oil seals. thats it.

WHY CLEAN? i dont get it? less you cant tune an engine! :laugh:

Don't knock it until you try it. I followed the process as indicated in the mentioned thread for a period of two weeks, doing it twice a week. In other words I did it four times about 3-4 days apart. The engine had 25K on it. This is what my piston top looked like after I wiped it off with a dry shop rag.

This is what they looked like before I wiped them off with the rag. You can see that the piston on the left is the same one as in the picture in previous post.

This is what the combustion chamber looked like after I wiped them out.

I am a firm believer in the stuff and will always use it. Follow the instructions as outlined in this thread and you will have the same results.
kzrider.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&...ew&catid=2&id=369254

take it out on an open stretch of highway and run it HARD through the gears once in a while to keep it cleaned out,stop and go city driving clogs everything up.

Have not experienced situation where carbon build-up inside compression chambers results in excessive compression.
But the FSM suggests such possibility and the remedy of disassembly and de-carbonizing pistons heads, etc.
Says built-up carbon on the piston reduces cooling capability of the piston and raises compression, leading to overheating which could possibly even melt the top of the piston.

Good Fortune!

I could see using it before a tear down that would fix the real problems. It would save you some manual cleaning. If a guy didn't have access to proper equipment and was going to just replace valve seals and maybe lap the valves.

I don't condone that process but there are budget constraints sometimes.

In fact, I encourage everyone to use it before they ship me the cylinder head. I would love it if every head came in that clean.

Oh...and Patten...if you dive further into the manual, it tells you to check and replace the worn out parts that caused the carbon build up to begin with :woohoo: