TOP END CLEANER?

I think that you are looking for this thread. I explain exactly how I do it on there.
kzrider.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&...ew&catid=2&id=369254

Motor Head wrote:

Another way to clean, is to use water. It creates steam and that does the cleaning. Hold the throttle open to get around 3K RPM and add a small quantity in the intake, the power brake vacuum line is a good spot.
You say new Catalytic converter, but did you replace both the up and down stream O2 senors?

We had the injectors and manifold taken off and cleaned less than 5k miles back. I have not tried shotgunning the O2 sensors or MAF sensors. That starts to get pricey because I am too old to do the work and recently have had severe back problems. If I have to pay to have the work done, it probably exceeds the value of the car.

BUT: I am not convinced it would pass even if I did that. The state arbitrarily dropped all the emission limits about 40% to a level this car was never designed to meet. The HC limit that it is failing is 65 PPM at 25 mph treadmill test (not simple idle test). This car would have passed the former limit (105 PPM), because it's reading about 85 PPM. Now, it's failing. The state government has been on a campaign to force all the old cars off the road.

otakar wrote:

I think that you are looking for this thread. I explain exactly how I do it on there.
kzrider.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&...ew&catid=2&id=369254

Thanks, that was the thread I was remembering existed somewhere.

Replacing the O2's should be standard practice with new catalytic converter replacement, and I get some as cheap as $25 shipped. The MAF is a clean only, unless damaged or otherwise setting codes. It should be part of a tune up these days.
I hear you on the bad back, mine hurts 24-7. Old age I guess, with to much heavy lifting when young.

Mine is a 92 Saturn and it only shows one 02 sensor. It has already been replaced once, doubt it's bad. I did clean the MAP sensor today with some electronics contact cleaner.

I did the Seafoam thing today into the intake manifold and killed a few billion mosquitos with my crop-duster drive through the neighborhood as the garbage blew out of the engine...:laugh:

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I find that both the MOPAR and the Valspar CCC works very well. It is very convenient because it is in a spray can with a nozzle tube and it foams up inside the cylinder, therefore coating all affected parts.

1 upstream O2, On Board Diagnostics One, OBD1. The down stream monitoring was part of the OBD2 starting in 94 1/2 for some cars and all vehicles sold in the US market had to have the updated Emissions by 96. The other thing is the early O2's were 1, 2 or 3 wire sensors. All of these use the exhaust piping for the ground for the signal, of 0-1v. That's why they changed to 4 wire, 2 white for the heater circuit, makes it warm p and start working faster, and a black and then a blue for the signal and its own ground return path. When replacing, I put the 4 wire sensors into the older cars. This will result in a much cleaner signal, a smoother Idle, and better economy. There are wide band and narrow band sensors, and nowadays they can range upwards of 4v all giving a better signal.
O2 sensor can be tested quite easy with a DVOM, or better a scope. Yours will make a voltage from 0-1 volt dc. Your computer keeps changing the Air/ Fuel Ratio slightly looking to the O2 for a response, rich lean cycle. The O2 uses the inside the pipe oxygen to compare to the outside air, it will have a switching wave signal. As the computer sees the results it then changes the Pulse width to the injectors to set the fuel ratio, depending on many other conditions of course. But this guy is what fine "Tunes" the A/F Ratio, as it is there to protect the Cat, a perfect 14.7 to 1 is what it would like.
I hope that Seafoam is both sensor safe and Cat safe, so no harm was done.

My Saturn is a '92, the only 02 sensor I found in the manual was upstream of the cat, mounted in the exhaust header.

I think Seafoam is sensor safe, I also used that "pass or don't pay" cleaner which is guaranteed sensor safe. I put about 2/3 can in the gas tank and sucked about six ounces directly into the manifold.

I have always been skeptical of these so-called combustion chamber clearers or whatever and I will tell you exactly why.

I frequently rebuild motorcycle engines as part of my job and as a hobby. The hard carbon buildup in the combustion chamber and on the piston dome needs some serous soaking in something a little stronger than $%$@!$ seafoam (like carb cleaner or gasket remover) as well as some quality time with a stiff brass brush in order to remove it.

The deposits on the valves are the worst - they are ROCK HARD and they remain untouched by solvent of any description. The deposits on the exhaust valve and in the exhaust port are especially bad (and I fail to see how any cleaner that you pour in the intake does anything to the exhaust valve or port - It's already burned!). Wire wheel or beadblast for them (don't forget to mask off the stem!).

There are very few things that will clean an already dirty combustion chamber besides mechanical force.

Many of these cleaners work well with fuel injected systems b/c they can clear out fuel injectors that do not have hard carbon buildup, rather, they have gummed fuel on the injector pintle from hot-soaking after the engine turns off.

Here's how to clean your combustion chambers and keep them clean - disassemble top end. Clean. Reassemble. Ride hard, plenty of highway trips with a good load on the engine. Use good premium gas while avoiding the temptation to add some special potion to every tankful. Don't run too rich and make sure you don't have oil sneaking past weak rings, grooved cylinders, or loose valve guides and seals.

Just my screwed up opinion though.

I would also like to see some before - after comparisons with some of these cleaners. Leakdown, compression, dyno test, borescore pictures - anything besides "well I used it and now my bike like super fast and its awesome man"

Hey Beef, nice write up...

Got me thinking about another thing based on what you wrote... In using Seafoam for example, brakes up the carbon build and basically run it through the exhaust...

Well with this carbon build up particles being broken down for no better choice of words, I would think where some of the carbon particles have a potential of ending up trapped in your valve components, possibly under the valve/seal?

Seems fairly possible no?

OMR