deep oil pan?

kzz1p wrote:

kano wrote:

while i wait for my wheel to come back i decided to look at my engine, last time i worked on it was 92 ish.
when i chipped a valve and had to replace the valve sleeve and piston any way getting off track a bit sorry.

so i remove sump to try on the deep sump i bought 4 mths ago,it came with a modified oil pump with a pipe extending down to the lowest point.
now when i hold up the new pump the oil pipe hits a small web which doesn't seem to be any use now with the new sump,

so the question is anyone heard of problems with grinding out the web so everything bolts up properly.

plus any idea who made this pan?

Dam I can't remember who made the pan. Are you using it a street bike? It will not hurt to grind the case right there.

Did you ask MTC?

yeah its in a street bike well more of a island bike to be honest. (my kz1000r at bottom of post.)



havn't e-mailed venders yet hoping someone will know who made it.

kano wrote:

id say so, i was laying under the bike though.

Well now you've got me curious about my own engine. I can't remember if I had to have that web trimmed or if the earlier KZ's don't have that web at all? Anyone remember??

Bike is looking good by the way!

kano wrote:

kinda like it bigger oil capacity don't have to worry about oil starvation in hard acceleration.

Dear Sir:
Yes the pan capacity is increased, that is a good thing. The oil pump and tube can be the problem.
The oil pickup tube is very long and bigger in dia. It is pulling oil up hill, from the sump.(please see your picture) The stock pump isn't the most powerful thing in the world. Vance and Hines had a big loss in oil pressure at low RPM on there bikes. The pan you have has been around for years. They were in the catalogs (still can't remember who) If that was the answer, everybody would be using them. How many have you seen in use? I think the oil cooler would of went out of style, and the deep sump would of taken over. 30 years later and no one ever came up with a new oil pump design. People just used, an oil control gate ( I only see one company selling them, now). I guess theres a reason why, theres not a pan in every garage?......Just my 2 cents!

I am not a mind reader but I see a speed bump in your future hehe

kzz1p wrote:

kano wrote:

kinda like it bigger oil capacity don't have to worry about oil starvation in hard acceleration.

Dear Sir:
Yes the pan capacity is increased, that is a good thing. The oil pump and tube can be the problem.
The oil pickup tube is very long and bigger in dia. It is pulling oil up hill, from the sump.(please see your picture) The stock pump isn't the most powerful thing in the world. Vance and Hines had a big loss in oil pressure at low RPM on there bikes. The pan you have has been around for years. They were in the catalogs (still can't remember who) If that was the answer, everybody would be using them. How many have you seen in use? I think the oil cooler would of went out of style, and the deep sump would of taken over. 30 years later and no one ever came up with a new oil pump design. People just used, an oil control gate ( I only see one company selling them, now). I guess theres a reason why, theres not a pan in every garage?......Just my 2 cents!

You make some very good points, but not all are true 100% of the time. I have used a deep sump for about 10,000 miles with no issues at all. The biggest disadvantage with the deep pan is the loss of ground clearance. The drag racing motorcycles can't use them at all for that reason, so they go with the gate. The deep sumps are much more popular with the roadracing crowd, and when made properly they work pretty well. I personally prefer the extra capacity pans that are extra deep all over, not just in one area, but those are expensive when they do show up on eBay. There are also some exhausts that won't clear an extra deep pan of either type.

With that being said, I'm sure there are plenty of botched deep sump conversions out there - buyer beware!

Oh, another reason for the deep sump is to keep the engine lubed during wheelies, not just for cooling. It doesn't take long to run a stock KZ pump dry.

Do you remember where you saw the data on the V&H pump? It would be interesting reading.

79MKII wrote:

kzz1p wrote:

kano wrote:

kinda like it bigger oil capacity don't have to worry about oil starvation in hard acceleration.

Dear Sir:
Yes the pan capacity is increased, that is a good thing. The oil pump and tube can be the problem.
The oil pickup tube is very long and bigger in dia. It is pulling oil up hill, from the sump.(please see your picture) The stock pump isn't the most powerful thing in the world. Vance and Hines had a big loss in oil pressure at low RPM on there bikes. The pan you have has been around for years. They were in the catalogs (still can't remember who) If that was the answer, everybody would be using them. How many have you seen in use? I think the oil cooler would of went out of style, and the deep sump would of taken over. 30 years later and no one ever came up with a new oil pump design. People just used, an oil control gate ( I only see one company selling them, now). I guess theres a reason why, theres not a pan in every garage?......Just my 2 cents!

You make some very good points, but not all are true 100% of the time. I have used a deep sump for about 10,000 miles with no issues at all. The biggest disadvantage with the deep pan is the loss of ground clearance. The drag racing motorcycles can't use them at all for that reason, so they go with the gate. The deep sumps are much more popular with the roadracing crowd, and when made properly they work pretty well. I personally prefer the extra capacity pans that are extra deep all over, not just in one area, but those are expensive when they do show up on eBay. There are also some exhausts that won't clear an extra deep pan of either type.

With that being said, I'm sure there are plenty of botched deep sump conversions out there - buyer beware!

Oh, another reason for the deep sump is to keep the engine lubed during wheelies, not just for cooling. It doesn't take long to run a stock KZ pump dry.

Do you remember where you saw the data on the V&H pump? It would be interesting reading.

One was the suzuki gs1000 article that showed the pump & pickup.

wiredgeorge wrote:

I am not a mind reader but I see a speed bump in your future hehe

don't go there wg :lol:
there is only 1 speed bump on the whole island ill try to avoid it :lol:

In the 80's the removal of the deversion webbing in the pan and the notch in the case was a common practice when installing turbo's on the KZ and using a modified rear oil pick-up like you have.

I've seen alot of these deep oil pans used on drag and road race bikes with on problems but have heard of several problems when the pan is used on a street bike, rocks and other hard objects, speed bumps and.... idling....Some engine builders use to say that unless you have a modified oil pump (ie larger gears in the pump) you should not run the rear pickup oil pump. Seems the extended, larger diameter tube has a harder time moving the correct volume of oil at idle.

These are just comments I've heard. I have the same type rear oil pickup in my turbo dragbike and it's been in there working great for over 10 years...

Buzz

Here's a question on this topic...

I removed my deep sump set up and replaced it with a gated pan and stock pump. I never gave a thought to the webbing on the engine that had been modified so many years ago.

Do you guys think the gated pan and stock pump will work OK with the web missing from the engine? Is it meant to partially seal and force the oil through the baffles? Maybe the gate doesn't really work properly if that web has been removed? :dry:

i think it will slow down oil in hard accelerating and keep sufficient oil to supply the pump,
so your ok

I agree with Kano, you should not have any problems.
The gate is not even necessary unless you are constantly launching extreemly hard from a dead stop with wheelie bars....
If you keep the correct amount of oil in the engine you'll be fine...

Buzz