Kz900 Engine casing crack after slight explosion. No clutch activity now.
- Nahman
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Re: Kz900 Engine casing crack after slight explosion. No clutch activity now.
22 Aug 2008 01:53 - 22 Aug 2008 02:02
Hi everyone. Sorry I havent updated in a while. Its been a very crazy past few days.You see I live in New york city, The Bronx to be more exact and my bike broke down in Queens. Now geographically these two areas aren't that far apart, but by utilizing public transportation....wooo!It takes me more than two hours to get from my home to where the bike was. This left me with very little time to do anything with it. And after work?Forget about it. It was pitch dark whenever I arrived. So two days ago my uncle and I rented a Uhaul van to move the bike. Bit of advice, I dont highly recommend anyone does the same. The Kz900 is one heavy bike! My uncle and I thought" we'll just get a couple of guys to help us lift it up into the back..." no way. Lucky for us the Uhaul place had a broken/detached ramp from one of there big moving trucks and they let us use it. Even the it was still difficult. Anyhow I have the bike home now. Ok I got the cover off:
From what I saw it didnt seem like anything big was broken. The sprocket was still in place and the chain too.The kick start still wasnt functioning though. I pulled the little rod that that mechanism thats connected to the clutch cable contacts. Pushed it in too.Nothing. It was really tough to do also. Anyway I noticed when I pushed the kickstart down that little rod spun. Whats supposed to happen? Is it connected to the cluch pushing thing? My rod had thoughts like that popping into my head, because of the way it looked:
Are they supposed to be connected? does that little pad stop it from spinning and allows the engine to start? I also thought this because I couldnt see how else that rod would come back to its original position after being pushed in, theres no spring or anything, at least it doesnt seem like it. Now theres the sprocket cover/pushing mechanism:
Does every thing seem to be ok with that? Anything missing? I cant seem to understand how that little pad would both push and pull the changing rod. I ordered a replacement clutch cable online and a replacement cover from oldkawman.com. Just waiting to get an email saying when he'll send it.
Also I found out why there were no bolts in the bottom of the cover: A bolt had been broken of in each one already! I can see broken ends in both holes. How can i get that otu? Or still find a suitable way to fasten it? will update again soon.
From what I saw it didnt seem like anything big was broken. The sprocket was still in place and the chain too.The kick start still wasnt functioning though. I pulled the little rod that that mechanism thats connected to the clutch cable contacts. Pushed it in too.Nothing. It was really tough to do also. Anyway I noticed when I pushed the kickstart down that little rod spun. Whats supposed to happen? Is it connected to the cluch pushing thing? My rod had thoughts like that popping into my head, because of the way it looked:
Are they supposed to be connected? does that little pad stop it from spinning and allows the engine to start? I also thought this because I couldnt see how else that rod would come back to its original position after being pushed in, theres no spring or anything, at least it doesnt seem like it. Now theres the sprocket cover/pushing mechanism:
Does every thing seem to be ok with that? Anything missing? I cant seem to understand how that little pad would both push and pull the changing rod. I ordered a replacement clutch cable online and a replacement cover from oldkawman.com. Just waiting to get an email saying when he'll send it.
Also I found out why there were no bolts in the bottom of the cover: A bolt had been broken of in each one already! I can see broken ends in both holes. How can i get that otu? Or still find a suitable way to fasten it? will update again soon.
Last edit: 22 Aug 2008 02:02 by Nahman.
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- wiredgeorge
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Re: Kz900 Engine casing crack after slight explosion. No clutch activity now.
22 Aug 2008 06:03
I think I have already pointed out that the broken off bolts allowed the clutch cover to flex and then break. To remove them depends on how much you have sticking out of the hole. If you can get vise grips on them, that is one way, if there is enough, you can cut a slot and use a flat bladed screw driver. If there is enough, you could weld another bolt to the broken off bolt and turn it out using the welded on bolt. If the bolt is broken off fairly flush, you could try using an extraction tool. Get a square-type extraction tool not an EZ out! The EZ will most likely break and you will have REAL problems as they are much harder than the bolt. You drill a pilot hole in the bolt and tap the extraction tool in the hole. It has an edge on the four corners that dig into the bolt and get tighter the more you turn it counter-clockwise. If there is no movement, don't try and force the bolt.
The last and probably the most realistic way of fixing the problem is to drill the bolt out. You will note that this is an M6 bolt with 1.0 pitch. You will likely need to find a VERY LONG drill bit since I wouldn't think you could get the drill back to where the bolts are without interference. Try a good tool store for this type bit. If you can find one, use a 1/4" very long drill bit which are pretty common. When you go to use a new bolt, go to a bolt specialty store and they will have 1/4" in the correct length. I have used 1/4" when I couldn't get the correct M6 bolt. You will need to tap the 6mm hole with a 1/4" tap but there is just enough metal left for this purpose.
The last and probably the most realistic way of fixing the problem is to drill the bolt out. You will note that this is an M6 bolt with 1.0 pitch. You will likely need to find a VERY LONG drill bit since I wouldn't think you could get the drill back to where the bolts are without interference. Try a good tool store for this type bit. If you can find one, use a 1/4" very long drill bit which are pretty common. When you go to use a new bolt, go to a bolt specialty store and they will have 1/4" in the correct length. I have used 1/4" when I couldn't get the correct M6 bolt. You will need to tap the 6mm hole with a 1/4" tap but there is just enough metal left for this purpose.
wiredgeorge Motorcycle Carburetors
Mico TX
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Mico TX
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- Jack
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Re: Kz900 Engine casing crack after slight explosion. No clutch activity now.
22 Aug 2008 06:59
Nahman- you'll need a clutch pushrod as well from the looks of
the one in your pics. And possibly a new pusher and ball
bearing-I'd be pulling the clutch to check.
BTW ,no clutch = no kickstart.
IMHO, it is almost impossible to drill out/ tap/helicoil those
cover mounting holes with the engine in the frame.
the one in your pics. And possibly a new pusher and ball
bearing-I'd be pulling the clutch to check.
BTW ,no clutch = no kickstart.
IMHO, it is almost impossible to drill out/ tap/helicoil those
cover mounting holes with the engine in the frame.
79 KZ 1075 MKll
79 KZ 1500 MKll dragbike
Gone but not forgotten:
3 X 73 Z1's
1 X 74 Z1A
1 X 75 Z1B
79 KZ 1500 MKll dragbike
Gone but not forgotten:
3 X 73 Z1's
1 X 74 Z1A
1 X 75 Z1B
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- Royal1MC
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Re: Kz900 Engine casing crack after slight explosion. No clutch activity now.
22 Aug 2008 07:10 - 25 Aug 2008 16:19
Is it me or does the pushrod look threaded. I think possible the clutch release and
pushrod was rigged. I think that it might be why the clutch adjustment for the cover is missing.
Nahman wrote:
pushrod was rigged. I think that it might be why the clutch adjustment for the cover is missing.
Nahman wrote:
So two days ago my uncle and I rented a Uhaul van to
move the bike. Bit of advice, I dont highly recommend anyone
does the same. The Kz900 is one heavy bike! My uncle and I
thought" we'll just get a couple of guys to help us lift it up
into the back..." no way. Lucky for us the Uhaul place had a
broken/detached ramp from one of there big moving trucks and
they let us use it. Even the it was still difficult. Anyhow I
have the bike home now.
Just bit of advise:
It should only take (3) people to lift a bike, (2) to lift and
(1) to hold the bike once you have the bike on the truck/van.
Also make or purchase a ramp, I can move my bike myself (for the
times when you can't find anyone around). load up the bike by a curbside,
to where the tailgate is closest to the ground. My folk's driveway leads up to their garage,
where you can just walk the bike on using a ramp.
Some old school cats taught me the last one.
*1980 Z1-R (current))
*1978 KZ1000 LTD w/ Z1-R frnt end (sold)
*1977 KZ650 B1 (sold)
Los Angeles, CA
*1978 KZ1000 LTD w/ Z1-R frnt end (sold)
*1977 KZ650 B1 (sold)
Los Angeles, CA
Last edit: 25 Aug 2008 16:19 by Royal1MC.
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- Locozuna
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Re: Kz900 Engine casing crack after slight explosion. No clutch activity now.
22 Aug 2008 09:56
I think maybe his ball bearing has powdered. Look where the pushrod has spun material on it. Can't say I have ever seen that before but it certainly looks like it has been spinning pretty damn good. Might be a complication of a few things. Ball bearing failure and mounting bolts missing.
KZ900LTD, KZ750LTD, KZ650, 72'Triumph Trident
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Down the Valley of the Shadow,
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Down the Valley of the Shadow,
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- zippy
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Re: Kz900 Engine casing crack after slight explosion. No clutch activity now.
22 Aug 2008 13:44
My .02 cents
Clutch pushrod looks corroded and probably frozen. When he grabbed the clutch lever the pushrod wouldn't budge so the worm gear device that pushes the pushrod just pushed out and snapped the outer cover assembly because of the 2 missing bolts.I'm guessing that the junk on the end of the pushrod is from wear on the worm gear assembly twisting on the pushrod that isn't moving.
The fix :
1. Pull pushrod out and either replace or wire brush to get corrosion off - then relube
2. Replace outer sprocket cover assemble (the one that cracked) - used ones are pretty cheap - or better yet just buy a replacement plate from Kosman, PMFR, APE,etc. which is the way I would go.
3. Pull clutch cover, clutch spring plate, springs, clutch pusher, ball bearing behind pusher.
4. Inspect clutch pusher and ball bearing and insert new (or polished) push rod to make sure it slides easily thru from one side to the other.
5. Replace clutch pusher (or polish, wire brush) or replace with after market needle bearing pusher assembly. Replace ball bearing if necessary.
6. Lube everything back up and make sure pushrod, clutch pusher and ball bearing all move freely.
7. Reassemble
Anyway - just some thoughts
Zippy
Clutch pushrod looks corroded and probably frozen. When he grabbed the clutch lever the pushrod wouldn't budge so the worm gear device that pushes the pushrod just pushed out and snapped the outer cover assembly because of the 2 missing bolts.I'm guessing that the junk on the end of the pushrod is from wear on the worm gear assembly twisting on the pushrod that isn't moving.
The fix :
1. Pull pushrod out and either replace or wire brush to get corrosion off - then relube
2. Replace outer sprocket cover assemble (the one that cracked) - used ones are pretty cheap - or better yet just buy a replacement plate from Kosman, PMFR, APE,etc. which is the way I would go.
3. Pull clutch cover, clutch spring plate, springs, clutch pusher, ball bearing behind pusher.
4. Inspect clutch pusher and ball bearing and insert new (or polished) push rod to make sure it slides easily thru from one side to the other.
5. Replace clutch pusher (or polish, wire brush) or replace with after market needle bearing pusher assembly. Replace ball bearing if necessary.
6. Lube everything back up and make sure pushrod, clutch pusher and ball bearing all move freely.
7. Reassemble
Anyway - just some thoughts
Zippy
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- Patton
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Re: Kz900 Engine casing crack after slight explosion. No clutch activity now.
22 Aug 2008 15:21
1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD
KZ900 LTD
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- modprod
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Re: Kz900 Engine casing crack after slight explosion. No clutch activity now.
25 Aug 2008 14:48
As was mentined before the te rod,pusher ,ball adjust screw welded itself together. The adjustment screw then turns itself in putting the beaking pressure on the cover. Extremely common with the old motors.
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- Nahman
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Re: Kz900 Engine casing crack after slight explosion. No clutch activity now.
26 Aug 2008 18:12
Thanks guys for all your help. I'm currently waiting for the outer sprocket cover to arrive. Could you guys help me understand how this works though? I purchased and used a battery charger yesterday. My battery is now fully charged. So I got the bike running (whoo!!) and the engine is running strong. So there is nothing wrong with that. So when I looked I saw that, just like when I tried to use the kick start the clutch pusher rod was spinning also. Am I right in saying that that rod is always spinning? So that means the screw on the clutch actuator was pushing against that rod to engage it? Wow. So when I try to use the kick start the screw on the actuator stops the rod from spinning and allows the motor to start? I dont fully understand how it works, the whole rod, clutch, kick starting relationship.
Any how thanks Patton I took your advice and bought both the replacement pushrod and mushroom. I hope it makes the clutch action somewhat more smooth because as I said before, it was real tough to engage the clutch. A couple more quick questions: How do I remove the pushrod? I tried pulling it when I initially pulled the cover off and didn't come out or go in more than half an inch or so.I tried to after zippy suggested it also. Doesnt budge really. And is there some sort of spring thats supposed to return the rod back to position after its pushed in? How does it move back out after its pushed in by the mushroom?
Any how thanks Patton I took your advice and bought both the replacement pushrod and mushroom. I hope it makes the clutch action somewhat more smooth because as I said before, it was real tough to engage the clutch. A couple more quick questions: How do I remove the pushrod? I tried pulling it when I initially pulled the cover off and didn't come out or go in more than half an inch or so.I tried to after zippy suggested it also. Doesnt budge really. And is there some sort of spring thats supposed to return the rod back to position after its pushed in? How does it move back out after its pushed in by the mushroom?
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- RonKZ650
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Re: Kz900 Engine casing crack after slight explosion. No clutch activity now.
26 Aug 2008 18:55
That pushrod arrangement you have there looks like a more or less home made solution. Besides the case you're going to need the entire release mech, mushroom, pushrod and ball bearing at least.
When the kickstarter is kicked it turns the clutch hub, then the clutch if locked turns the clutch basket which in turn turns the engine over, so if your clutch lever is pulled in or the plates removed only the center of the clutch will turn, not the outer basket.
None of your pushrod stuff should spin with the engine. The mushroom may spin just from residual oil drag, then the ball bearing should isolate the rod itself from spinning. The rod pulls right out, but as previously mentioned, you've got serious problems there. Probably the rod has welded itself to the ball and the whole thing has mushroomed to big to pull. It's going to take some work there.
When the kickstarter is kicked it turns the clutch hub, then the clutch if locked turns the clutch basket which in turn turns the engine over, so if your clutch lever is pulled in or the plates removed only the center of the clutch will turn, not the outer basket.
None of your pushrod stuff should spin with the engine. The mushroom may spin just from residual oil drag, then the ball bearing should isolate the rod itself from spinning. The rod pulls right out, but as previously mentioned, you've got serious problems there. Probably the rod has welded itself to the ball and the whole thing has mushroomed to big to pull. It's going to take some work there.
321,000 miles on KZ's that I can remember. Not going to see any more.
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- Patton
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Re: Kz900 Engine casing crack after slight explosion. No clutch activity now.
26 Aug 2008 20:05 - 26 Aug 2008 20:11
Nahman wrote:
The clutch pushrod adjustment is a
routine maintenance item and is
accomplished by loosening the locknut,
turning the screw in clockwise
(or counter-clockwise, depending on
the particular model) until lightly seated
and then loosening the screw 1/2 turn,
then tightening the locknut. This leaves
a small gap between the adjusting screw
and the push rod, so there is no pressure
countering the clutch springs which are
holding the clutch plates together.
The clutch lever when first squeezed
should have a slight easy short pull
(which takes up the pushrod slack via
the worm gear) and then the clutch lever
begins requiring a much firmer squeeze
throughout its remaining travel on toward
and against the handlebar grip. It's the
firm squeeze pulling distance whereby
the interior cable continues activating
the worm gear which pushes the clutch
pushrod to overcome the pressure of the
clutch springs and thereby disengage the clutch.
Upon releasing the handlebar clutch lever,
pressure against the pushrod is relieved,
whereby the natural action of the clutch
springs serves to press the clutch plates
together and thereby engage the clutch.
While squeezing and releasing the handlebar
clutch lever, should be able to sense feel
of the clutch as it disengages (squeezing
the lever) and engages (releasing the lever).
If the clutch pushrod gap has reduced or vanished
(from perfectly normal ordinary gradual wearing
of the clutch plate material), the simple
quick cheap easy fix is often a clutch
pushrod adjustment.
Here it is, straight from Mama Kaw's lips:
"Clutch push rod adjustment -- Need and Purpose"
The FSM (factory service manual) covering
Z1 and KZ900 includes a periodic maintenance
chart requiring clutch push rod adjustment
at 2000 mile (3000 km) intervals and explains
the need therefor in separate text,
which explanation is quoted as follows:
"Besides cable stretch, clutch plate wear
also causes the clutch to go out of adjustment,
with a decrease in push rod play. Due to
this wear, the push rod gradually moves
closer to the clutch release lever
(at the lower end of the clutch cable)
until it touches the adjusting screw.
When the rod is touching the screw and
therefore has no play, the clutch will not
engage fully and clutch slippage will occur.
Note that the clutch push rod does not
necessaily have play just because the
clutch hand lever has play, and so hand
lever play alone cannot be used to
determine whether or not the clutch
requires adjustment."
The FSM covering '77-'79 KZ1000's includes
a periodic maintenance chart requiring
clutch adjustment at 5000 km intervals,
and explains the need therefor in slightly
different language, which explanation
is quoted as follows:
"Clutch plate wear also causes the clutch
to go out of adjustment. This wear causes
the play between the push rod and the
adjusting screw to gradually diminish
until the push rod touches the adjusting screw.
When this play is lost, the clutch will
not engage fully, causing the clutch to slip.
NOTE: Even though the proper amount of play
exists at the clutch lever, clutch lever play
alone cannot be used to determine whether
or not the clutch requires adjustment."
Good Luck!
... help me understand how this works...
dont fully understand how it works, the whole
rod, clutch, kick starting relationship...
is there some sort of spring thats supposed
to return the rod back to position after its
pushed in? How does it move back out after its
pushed in by the mushroom?
The clutch pushrod adjustment is a
routine maintenance item and is
accomplished by loosening the locknut,
turning the screw in clockwise
(or counter-clockwise, depending on
the particular model) until lightly seated
and then loosening the screw 1/2 turn,
then tightening the locknut. This leaves
a small gap between the adjusting screw
and the push rod, so there is no pressure
countering the clutch springs which are
holding the clutch plates together.
The clutch lever when first squeezed
should have a slight easy short pull
(which takes up the pushrod slack via
the worm gear) and then the clutch lever
begins requiring a much firmer squeeze
throughout its remaining travel on toward
and against the handlebar grip. It's the
firm squeeze pulling distance whereby
the interior cable continues activating
the worm gear which pushes the clutch
pushrod to overcome the pressure of the
clutch springs and thereby disengage the clutch.
Upon releasing the handlebar clutch lever,
pressure against the pushrod is relieved,
whereby the natural action of the clutch
springs serves to press the clutch plates
together and thereby engage the clutch.
While squeezing and releasing the handlebar
clutch lever, should be able to sense feel
of the clutch as it disengages (squeezing
the lever) and engages (releasing the lever).
If the clutch pushrod gap has reduced or vanished
(from perfectly normal ordinary gradual wearing
of the clutch plate material), the simple
quick cheap easy fix is often a clutch
pushrod adjustment.
Here it is, straight from Mama Kaw's lips:
"Clutch push rod adjustment -- Need and Purpose"
The FSM (factory service manual) covering
Z1 and KZ900 includes a periodic maintenance
chart requiring clutch push rod adjustment
at 2000 mile (3000 km) intervals and explains
the need therefor in separate text,
which explanation is quoted as follows:
"Besides cable stretch, clutch plate wear
also causes the clutch to go out of adjustment,
with a decrease in push rod play. Due to
this wear, the push rod gradually moves
closer to the clutch release lever
(at the lower end of the clutch cable)
until it touches the adjusting screw.
When the rod is touching the screw and
therefore has no play, the clutch will not
engage fully and clutch slippage will occur.
Note that the clutch push rod does not
necessaily have play just because the
clutch hand lever has play, and so hand
lever play alone cannot be used to
determine whether or not the clutch
requires adjustment."
The FSM covering '77-'79 KZ1000's includes
a periodic maintenance chart requiring
clutch adjustment at 5000 km intervals,
and explains the need therefor in slightly
different language, which explanation
is quoted as follows:
"Clutch plate wear also causes the clutch
to go out of adjustment. This wear causes
the play between the push rod and the
adjusting screw to gradually diminish
until the push rod touches the adjusting screw.
When this play is lost, the clutch will
not engage fully, causing the clutch to slip.
NOTE: Even though the proper amount of play
exists at the clutch lever, clutch lever play
alone cannot be used to determine whether
or not the clutch requires adjustment."
Good Luck!

1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD
KZ900 LTD
Last edit: 26 Aug 2008 20:11 by Patton.
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- RonKZ650
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Re: Kz900 Engine casing crack after slight explosion. No clutch activity now.
26 Aug 2008 21:39
I'll enter my 2c that will generally be regarded as bull as always, but as I've said before over and over, there is no reason to ever fool with the adjuster on the engine. Even in 160,000 miles plus without adjusting, simply adjusting the cable is ample to keep the clutch working just fine. This is KZ #1, KZ#2 has 80,000 miles, KZ#3 63,000. None have ever f**ked with the adjustment at the engine. So go by the Clammer manual, turn the adjuster on the engine in 34 turns till it feels hard, or out 38.2 turns. Either way it will be piece of junk after attempting adjusting this way. This doesn't help at all if previous owners have "adjusted" unfortunately.
321,000 miles on KZ's that I can remember. Not going to see any more.
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