KZ1000 oil pump drive gear

Is this a continuation of THIS THREAD ?

This argument sounded familiar, so I went back a few pages and found the original.


So, did you ever find the cause of the low oil pressure on your 1000?

I don't have a 1000 motor to look at, but it might be possible to install a smaller gear by milling the mounting surface to move it closer to the driving gear. Might be something to look at if you're determined to spin the pump faster.


Just in case no one answered your question, the 400/440/550/650/750 (both twins and fours) motors have plain bearing inserts on the rods, and mains, only the 900/1000/1100 motors have the roller bearings on the rods and mains.

And in a total reversal, only the 900/1000/1100 motors have plain bearing inserts on the cams, the smaller motors have cams that ride directly on the aluminum head.

Weird huh

bountyhunter wrote:

Makarth wrote:

ok i want to get my foot in the door on this one because i have thought about modding the oil pump as well. First off i have to agree on the subtracting tooth requires smaller diameter but i have to disagree on the approach for modding the pump to begin with.



i would be modding the gears i pointed out with the red arrows not the drive gear (#23) with slanted gears or a worm gears to make it more efficient and less friction producing contact area. the only way to mod #23 would be to either make a small gear and chain it to the crank or add a gear (which would be three gears making the oil go backwards).


edit: 3 gears includes the crank and the two new mod gears.

I am not sure I understand the objectives in doing this.

Are you assuming that the amount of volume pushed for a given RPM would increase by going to slanted gears or are you trying to get an increase in pressure for the given RPM?

I don't really see how the friction between the gears is really a critical issue. Since they are bathed in oil, their wear is almost non existent. The pump on my KZ 750 had 75,000 miles at the teardown and there was no measurable wear on any of the dimensions. Reducing friction might very slightly reduce the amount of force required to spin the pump, but since it's driven off the engine, that's not really an issue either.

The thing about cranking up pressure: the typical oil pump actually puts out too much pressure when cold (oil thickest) which is why they have a pressure relief bypass valve. In my engine, I measured that at SUPER hot temps and idling, I was still getting 25 - 30 psi of pressure which is plenty.

I am not sure I see the need for increasing the pressure.

i haven't put too much thought into it but switching away from straight gears to a worm or slant could make an increase in how much oil is moved i'm not going to get in the whole fluid dynamics of it cause i don't have one of my books laying around (sold them for summer so i can eat :woohoo:) also decreasing the friction will also drop temps not just power consumption which i'm sure every little bit helps. Like i said it's just a thought if i was going to get serious i would buy a used pump off ebay and talk to my professor about it (i'm annoying him as it is :woohoo: )

Makarth wrote:

i haven't put too much thought into it but switching away from straight gears to a worm or slant could make an increase in how much oil is moved

i'm not going to get in the whole fluid dynamics of it cause i don't have one of my books laying around (sold them for summer so i can eat :woohoo:) also decreasing the friction will also drop temps not just power consumption which i'm sure every little bit helps. Like i said it's just a thought if i was going to get serious i would buy a used pump off ebay and talk to my professor about it (i'm annoying him as it is :woohoo: )

OK, sure..... and the friction of those gears probably contributes .00000000000000001% of the total heat generated in the running engine which would drop the oil temp accordingly.

Maybe it would move more volume of oil. Trying to do that is at least a definable objective, but as I pointed out: the pump needs to force the oil through the engine which presents a specific backpressure profile to the pump. Trying to move more volume necessarily requires more pressure which changes the loading distribution. Maybe a higher volume pump could be built..... but if higher volume would result in "better performance" in the engine... in such a way as to significantly improve performance, it makes me wonder why the maker wouldn't just use helical gears. In a type of bike that today retails for maybe $8k, I am having trouble believing they would save two bucks on the pump if there was some "low hanging fruit" to be grabbed with such a simple modification. Still skeptical.

i completely understand what you mean but i think it may have something to do with the time the bike was produced. To my understand the bike was in the works since 1969 and between the period of 1969 to 1980 there were punch card CNC machines if any and im sure those cost small fortunes to use . For as small as the pump gears are im sure you couldnt just cast it and go where as a straight tooth gear could easily be punched with a die.

edit: i'm sure casting and machining techniques have improved so that helical gears dont need to be CNCed anymore

Makarth wrote:

i completely understand what you mean but i think it may have something to do with the time the bike was produced. To my understand the bike was in the works since 1969 and between the period of 1969 to 1980 there were punch card CNC machines if any and im sure those cost small fortunes to use . For as small as the pump gears are im sure you couldnt just cast it and go where as a straight tooth gear could easily be punched with a die.

edit: i'm sure casting and machining techniques have improved so that helical gears dont need to be CNCed anymore

Boy are you way off

The year 1952 brough Mr. John Parsons NC (Numeric Control) milling machine. Parsons worked to attach servomotors to the x and y axis controlling them with a computer that reads punch cards to give it positioning instructions. The reason for devising such a system was to machine complex shapes like arcs that can be made into airfoils for airplanes. This was not a trivial task to attempt with a manual milling machine, so the NC milling machine was born.

www.me.wpi.edu/MFE/HCCM/cnc.html

1972

* FUJITSU FANUC LTD was founded and became independent from FUJITSU LIMITED.
* CNC was introduced.

FANUC's History


The punch card machines were called NC, as you can see by the above, the CNC came a little later (1972). The earliest machine that I have personally seen that was set up to cut helical gears was a 1920's Cincinnati Horizontal mill, driven by an overhead lineshaft. Had an indexing head on one end of the table gear driven by the table leadscrew, and it was a regular production option.

I probably ought to mention Hurco as well, they're well known for their early Bridgeport conversions.

Since it was founded in 1968, Hurco Companies, Inc. has maintained the same mission – to provide unique, innovative software and CNC controls

www.hurco.com/Hurco/Corporate/

It just a hobby for me