KZ1000 oil pump drive gear

steve3408 wrote:

Sorry but i guess it does for the suzuki gear,Maybe you should investigate it,The "Suzuki mod" is a replacement gear (1)for the oil pump drive gear,
not two.I dont know how they did it,but it must be a different spacing,angles or tooth height.They obviously work since they are being sold to improve the oil pump output.If it can be done for the Suzuki, it couldnt be that much of a stretch to fabricate one for a Kawasaki.
And maybe its only a matter of one or two teeth on a gear to do that,although like you said a two gear mod would be more practical,something like maybe the gear drive instead of timing chains on cars.But no ones gonna make one for these old KZ's, they're dinosaurs now, so the new,cool ,hot products arent being designed for them anymore , but surely the technology is out there to make some improvements on the old ones too.We just have to be open minded test the limits.
I'm sure 20 something years ago, if you had said adding relays and mission specific wiring for the headlights and coils on the KZ would make it better,there would have been people saying it doesnt work that way,cant improve it,impossible,blah,blah,blah....

Well..... I just had the pump out of my KZ and I recall it had about 20T on the shaft gear give or take a tooth. If you go down 2 to 18, it will change the gear pitch. Maybe not so much it destroys the pinion gear, so let's assume the new gear works. You will be increasing the pump shaft RPM by 10%. I am having a really hard time believing that is worth the price of admission..... and it leaves me asking the obvious question:

If a shaft gear with two fewer teeth is more "optimum" for the pump's operating point...... why is it that the factory didn't do it? The price of the components would be exactly the same with a different gear ratio.

Just wondering.... the engineers who do this for a living are pretty good at such things. Pump output is highly non-linear, and you have to deal with effects of turbulence, laminar flow, back pressure and other foibles. I'd be surprised if the kawi engineers just screwed up and designed in the wrong gear ratio.

KZ1000 oil pump drive gears have 49 teeth,what are you working on?
For optimum performance,...theres probably a lot of things Kawasaki could have done differently, but as a manufacturer,they aremass producing a product at the lowest cost/highest profit margins,do you really think they stay up late at night worrying about critical parts that just barely get the job done,but are cheap material/labor produced,as long as it holds up long enough to sell.
These oil pumps are the same used since 1972/73, and probably a standard item for kawaski motor products, like their forklifts and other industrial equiptment they manufactured,could have even been a version from a
smaller motorbike,japanese engineers didnt "screw up and design the wrong gear ratio" chances are they probably used the same parts vendors/contractors on many of their different industrial products,so using a existing or already proven part was standard procedure,easy to adapt to whatever application was desired at the time.Look at the KZ1000 oil pump,it looks like there were allowances built into the casting for some other application that might have used some kind of spring loaded restrictor to regulate volume/pressure at a different rate,possibly for an application that didnt have roller bearings in the late 60's and early 70's.Not every part is specifically made for each and every year model/style
change,many parts numbers are reused thru the years and some are changed,..some are not.A lot of the parts interchange on 73-80 KZ900 and KZ1000,a lot are the same part numbers.Oil pumps were the same,forks/triple trees the same,swingarms-the same,exhaust components-the same,coils,stators,spark advancers,timing chains,valves...Did you really think Kawi engineers design all new parts and numbers for every different model specifically and every one is performance optimized?...like all manufacturers, they use standard parts inventories to reduce costs.

steve3408 wrote:

KZ1000 oil pump drive gears have 49 teeth,what are you working on?

KZ-750 twin.

steve3408 wrote:

For optimum performance,...theres probably a lot of things Kawasaki could have done differently, but as a manufacturer,they aremass producing a product at the lowest cost/highest profit margins,do you really think they stay up late at night worrying about critical parts that just barely get the job done,but are cheap material/labor produced,as long as it holds up long enough to sell.

I think you missed my point. It would be no cost difference at all to change the gear ratio, why do you think it is what it is? I think they have a lot of experience building the parts for these engines, and I think they would be using a different ratio if it gave better flow volume and pressure head across the viscosity range of use. Just my opinion.

steve3408 wrote:

These oil pumps are the same used since 1972/73, and probably a standard item for kawaski motor products

apparrently not, since the 750 pump is very different than the other one.

steve3408 wrote:

KZ1000 oil pump drive gears have 49 teeth

So, you will be reducing the total number by 2 teeth which will give an increase in shaft RPM of 4%? You seriously think that would make a significant difference? I assume you can imagine why I doubt it.


steve3408 wrote:

Did you really think Kawi engineers design all new parts and numbers for every different model specifically and every one is performance optimized?

No, if you actually read my post, what I said was they have a lot of experience designing these things and I doubt they would be using the wrong gear ratio just out of ignorance or laziness if it was true that simply changing one gear made it work better.

something that is not being thought about, when you increase the oil flow/volume you really need to have a larger oil capacity or you can empty the the pan out then things really get ugly.

Years ago we built a sm block chevy oil pan with a plexi glass side on it, at 5000 rpm, there was only 1 inch of oil in the bottom of the pan, this was a stock pan also. scare the hell out of you

Another thing that needs addressing is the drain system of passages. If you increase the amount of oil on the top end, you need to make adjustments to allow that extra oil to drain back into the pan. If there is a problem with the oil pump on these engines, how come Kawasaki has been using them for 35 years.......chris3

Forgot to add: I wanted to see how much oil was being pumped into the camshaft area of the engine. So, I left the cam cover off. It took me most of the afternoon to clean up the mess. This was on my Z1 back in the 70s. Definitely no shortage of oil in the top end....chris3

coppertales wrote:

Forgot to add: I wanted to see how much oil was being pumped into the camshaft area of the engine. So, I left the cam cover off. It took me most of the afternoon to clean up the mess. This was on my Z1 back in the 70s. Definitely no shortage of oil in the top end....chris3

Yeow! I accidentally started mine with the oil filler cap on the ground once and that blew enough oil around for my tastes....:laugh:

Maybe you should investigate it,The "Suzuki mod" is a replacement gear (1)for the oil pump drive gear,
not two.

You mean this "one"? store02.prostores.com/servlet/vansantperformance/Detail?no=196

modprod wrote:

Maybe you should investigate it,The "Suzuki mod" is a replacement gear (1)for the oil pump drive gear,
not two.

You mean this "one"? store02.prostores.com/servlet/vansantperformance/Detail?no=196

With these gears, you have the extra volume needed to properly lubricate your engine

Well..... it's a relief to me to know I didn't waste all those hours getting a minor in mechanical engineering.:laugh:

steve3408 wrote:

We just have to be open minded test the limits.

It's not about being open minded, it's a matter of being educated and actually dealing with stuff like this. If you like I can post a lot of links to gear design, pitch, pressure angle, etc

I had to go through all this stuff recently where I had to find a gear to replace one that was missing on a metal lathe.

Here is just one example:



And a LINK with definitions of the terms.

steve3408 wrote:

Sorry but i guess it does for the suzuki gear,Maybe you should investigate it,The "Suzuki mod" is a replacement gear (1)for the oil pump drive gear,
not two.I dont know how they did it,but it must be a different spacing,angles or tooth height.

They replaced both gears according to the image shown.

store02.prostores.com/servlet/vansantperformance/Detail?no=196

bountyhunter wrote:

steve3408 wrote:

Sorry but i guess it does for the suzuki gear,Maybe you should investigate it,The "Suzuki mod" is a replacement gear (1)for the oil pump drive gear,
not two.I dont know how they did it,but it must be a different spacing,angles or tooth height.

They replaced both gears according to the image shown.

store02.prostores.com/servlet/vansantperformance/Detail?no=196

The performance/racing sites i looked at just showed the one gear mod,i spent hours looking at different sites,but i was looking for Kawi stuff and not Zuzuki stuff,so i onlynoticed it in passing thru the parts.
You have to be open minded to new ideas and theories,for any "edjumacation" to help.If youre closed minded you only limit your education.Unless you have many years of mechanical engineering and practical experience, a common "college boy" education is probably not going to make you an expert on Asian motorcyles,you draw from personal experience just like the rest of us on this site.I knew from the get go,that common sense dictates less gear teeth would have to be a smaller diameter gear,and would'nt work with existing engine gear,but...there was the ad for Suzuki's gear for improved volume,so...???? No one on here is the smartest person on earth,not even you,so this forum allows spirted exchanges of ideas,and collectively theres a lot of intelligence and experience to draw from here,with lots of questions,ideas,modifications and maintenance tips that we can all benefit from,if it only serves to sharpen our motorcycle repair skills.
With that said, thats the first ad i've seen showing two gears,the others were showing one gear.And those gears dont look like the one i seen being sold for Suzuki,but its probably a different manufacturer/parts vendor too.Something like that could probably be made for KZ900/1000 too.Thats got my curiosity up now, i'll have to go back and find where it showed just one gear for an upgrade.(APE racing, i think..?)

steve3408 wrote:

bountyhunter wrote:

steve3408 wrote:

Sorry but i guess it does for the suzuki gear,Maybe you should investigate it,The "Suzuki mod" is a replacement gear (1)for the oil pump drive gear,
not two.I dont know how they did it,but it must be a different spacing,angles or tooth height.

They replaced both gears according to the image shown.

store02.prostores.com/servlet/vansantperformance/Detail?no=196

You have to be open minded to new ideas and theories,for any "education" to help.If youre closed minded you only limit your education.

Dude, give it up. The picture of the "gear upgrade" shows two gears. You can't change the number of gears on a gear of a specific diameter without altering the pitch or spacing of the gears. It is mathmatically impossible.