1978 KZ1000 No Spark

That was with plug boots on. I'll re-do the test as suggested.

Agree first priority is getting spark to the plugs. Fat blue spark would be nice. But could temporarily accept a lesser weak orange spark as something to work with.

After getting the engine to run, a fun test for plug wire leakage is running the engine in a dark garage and spraying water mist over the wires (using a common hand-held spray bottle).

As and when new plug wires may be needed to replace failing plug wires permanently affixed to good coils, here is a splicer unit whereby new plug wires may be fitted.

plug wire splicer

For new plug wires, I would suggest solid core Dyna wires with caps already built in. My bikes' ignitions perform very well without any resistance whatever between the coils and business ends of the plugs (i.e., no resistance in the wires, caps or plugs), the only downside being interference (a lot of interference) picked up by radio antennas, if that matters.

Dyna solid core plug wires

The Dyna solid core plug wires also come in red or yellow.

Thanks for the progress reports.

Happy New Year Everyone!

My resolution is to get this Frankenstein bike on the road!!

Reading between plug wires without the boots for the 1/4 coil is 14.24 and is 14.65 between 2/3 coil.

The crimp splicer is next.

Dave

Got the crimp splicer off and it appears that it was a good splice but who knows. I thought that checking to see if there was power to this yellow/pink wire would be a good idea but I am confused about the reading.

With the red lead to the splice and the black grounded to the engine, the meter set to VAC V it seems to settle alternating between 21.n and 22.n.

Is this a good test or am I set up wrong?

Dave

You should set the meter to Volts DC. It's all DC in these beasts. No AC....well the alternater produces AC but then this goes through the rectifier and it's all DC from there. If the wire is a live/hot wire you should be seeing about 12 V DC (battery voltage)


From your recent readings for the secondary coil resistance I would think your coils are good.

Happy New Year.
I doubt it will take to long to get her running. SOunds like you are close

Post edited by: JR, at: 2008/01/01 14:27

Knowmad wrote:

Got the crimp splicer off and it appears that it was a good splice but who knows. I thought that checking to see if there was power to this yellow/pink wire would be a good idea but I am confused about the reading.

With the red lead to the splice and the black grounded to the engine, the meter set to VAC V it seems to settle alternating between 21.n and 22.n.

Is this a good test or am I set up wrong?

Dave

Okay -- JR beat me to the punch, again. :woohoo: And I concur. :lol:


meter set to VAC V -- will pretend that's a typo, as meter should be set to measure DC (direct current) in 12 volt range, and not AC (alternating current).

Am thinking the red wire from the DS2 is for tapping into the bike's battery voltage. It's often convenient to tap into the single wire (red/yellow) which feeds battery voltage to the coils, thereby allowing battery voltage to the DS2 only when the ignition key is turned on.

The multimeter usually has a red wire probe and a black wire probe, and various settings to allow measuring for DC voltage or AC voltage or ohms (resistance). The battery inside the meter should be good. When set to measure ohms, touching the red and black probes together should show the reading for no resistance between the probes. An ohm check between wire ends is a good way to check for continuity in the wire from one end to the other, and indicates whether the wire might be broken inside underneath the insulation.

The battery voltage testing should be done with the meter set in the DC (direct current) position to read DC voltage in the 12 volt range. (Not the AC setting). Bike battery provides DC (direct current); the alternator generates AC (alternating current) which goes to the rectifier which converts AC to DC.

Having power to the coils but no spark at the plugs could result from no battery voltage reaching the DS2 via the red wire. Would check for battery voltage in red wire at the DS2 unit (under the points cover). Set multimeter to check DC in 12 volt range, and touch red probe to whereever it connects to the DS2. If that's not possible, may use a needle pierced into the red wire, and touch probe end to needle. Touch black probe to ground. With bike ignition switch turned on, should have battery voltage to DS2.

If no battery voltage to DS2 -- could do ohm test between ends of red wire (from tap end to DS2 end) to assure continuity of the red wire (perhaps the red wire is broken inside preventing battery voltage from reaching the DS2).

Would assure battery voltage is getting to the DS2, and proceed from there. Assuring battery voltage to the coils (already done) and battery voltage to the DS2 will limit the list of suspects. The coils look okay, but the problem may yet be found to lie with the old plug wires and/or caps and/or connections between caps and plug wires and/or connections between caps and plugs.

Hoping to soon hear about fat blue sparks.

Good Luck!

Post edited by: Patton, at: 2008/01/01 14:47

Post edited by: Patton, at: 2008/01/01 14:48

Real good advise here so far. My 2 cents worth:

Given a 1 Vdc drop between Battery + and Coils... just do the WG Coil Re-powering mod. Low cost and high reliabiltiy... you can't lose.

This will be much easier that trying to troubleshoot your way through bad wires, bad connectors, bad Kill switch, bad Clutch Interlock switch, bad crimps, etc. Don't ask how I know. :whistle:

IMHO, any new connection you are making should be soldered then covered in heat shrink tubing. If you find bad connectors you can get the OEM type, male and female with clear plastic cover from Z1 for cheap... even the white plastic multi-pin connectors.

Best of success!

As advised, I removed the crimp connector and soldered the red power line from the DS2-1 to the y/r wire. Since I did not have much juice in the batt I connected my trickle charger in start mode and cranked the engine. Got nice orange spark to cyl 1 plug. :woohoo:

I have put the batt on a trickle charge and will get the gas tank hooked up.

Wish I had an alternative gas source that is not as unwieldy as the tank. Troubleshooting with the tank in place is a pain.

Tomorrow is suppose to be a high of 35 degrees. Don't know if I have the fortitude to work in those temps and starting may be hard. We'll see.

Looking forward to troubleshooting the myriad of timing problems I am bound to have.

Many Many thanks to all here. Being electrically challenged I have learned a lot these past couple of days.

Dave

Knowmad wrote:

Wish I had an alternative gas source that is not as unwieldy as the tank. Troubleshooting with the tank in place is a pain.

An lawnmower gas tank will work well.

Sounds like you're getting there and keeping my finger crossed that you get her to fire once the battery is charged up

bill is right about the WG coil repowering mod.

Knowmad wrote:

... Got nice orange spark to cyl 1 plug....

Hoping other plugs also have at least some spark.

... Tomorrow is suppose to be a high of 35 degrees. Don't know if I have the fortitude to work in those temps and starting may be hard. We'll see....

Absent more history regarding prior performance, how long bike may have been stored, whether carbs were drained, whether any fuel stablizer was used, etc., could play it safe, as follows.

Before running engine, check oil level and assure oil doesn't have a gasoline odor.

Assure clean fresh fuel in tank; flush any crud from tank (remove tank, slosh inside with fresh gas, turn upside down and empty through fill hole); assure ample fuel flow from petcock; install in-line fuel filter; drain and flush carb float bowls (drain any remaining old gas, allow to fill with fresh fuel from tank, and drain again). Best to avoid sucking old stale gas and sediment from the float bowls into the carb fuel passages.

Do compression test with all plugs removed, holding throttle wide open during test.

Check valve clearances (may defer until later if compression figures look okay, but should be done before addressing any carb mixture adjustments or other suspected carb issues).

Best cold cranking procedure --
Ign on; engine stop switch off; tranny in neutral; petcock on.
Lift choke lever to top (choke fully on).
DON'T TOUCH THROTTLE.
Push starter button.
Once engine is running, play with choke and throttle.

As a desperate last resort, could spray starter fluid into carb intake while cranking (opinions differ about this, and some very savy folks urge never using starter fluid).

Upon attaining some semblance of a low rpm idle, ignition timing is best set with a strobe-type timing light. The F marks are for timing. Not the T mark which shows top dead center and which is useful for other things such as when setting the automatic cam chain adjuster. Should be able to watch the automatic advancer unit freely operate back and forth when slightly reving the engine and allowing return to idle.

Question please -- what type carbs are installed?

Some drag bike builders seem primarily concerned with carb performance at wide open throttle (the main jet circuit) and relatively unconcerned with the more mundane streetability carb issues such as good low steady idle and mid-range performance. So it's no telling what carb surprises may await. May keep things interesting. :lol:

Good Luck!

Interesting is a good word.

I expect to have issues, especially with timing. Thanks for the procedures.

Tank is already clean and I rebuilt the carbs (Mikunis from the A2) myself. They may cause performance problems in the long run. Drained and replaced oil and filter.

I want to get a running bike first as there is a lot more to do. Like I said, I am cobbling this thing together (first ever). Since this is/was an A2 I will replace & rebuild the forks with the chrome lowers and dual disks from the Z1. I want to learn how to rebuild the front end so it is a good winter project. I was hoping to get the engine running before this but, baring other show stoppers, now the bike may be ridable in the spring. Can't wait!

Dave

JR, Thanks for the tip. I went to Ace Hardware and their repair guy sold me a used weed whacker fuel tank and a new petcock / shut off valve for $8.44. Dave