Don't shoot the messanger!

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02 Aug 2008 11:46 #229701 by ronjones
Replied by ronjones on topic Don't shoot the messanger!
I personally prefer a quiet bike, but just today, louder pipes might have been a plus. I was riding the left lane of a 2 lane city road. Right lane was backed up, @ the light, and just as I was passing, @ a rolling idle, the last car in the right land, he decides to come over in my lane. Luckily I was more aware than the moron driving and was able to avoid the accident, but I'm sure he would have said he didn't see me, but I cannot see how he would not have heard me, if I'd had louder pipes.
As far as the Majority rules" argument on curtailment of "personal choice" and the "Right of Free Association" I would remind you of the idea of the "Tyranny of the Majority".
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority

'82 KZ750 CSR, M1 twin. Mac 2-1 exhaust, K&N pods, 17tooth drive sprocket, Mikuni BS-34 carbs w/#47.5 pilot jet and #125 main jet, Canadian XS650 needlejetjet needle, Wired George's coil mod.
Barrak, Nancy and Harry says: Welcome to the United Soviet States of America, Comrades

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02 Aug 2008 12:33 #229706 by Locozuna
Replied by Locozuna on topic Don't shoot the messanger!
"Tyranny of the Majority" might fit under the Holocaust example as cited but I wonder about your situation. You would still have to deal with what if the person was listening to one of those ear splitting stereos or deaf for that matter. Maybe he had a another bike next to him with similar loud pipes. Would safety of car drivers not be safer under the same conditions if they also ran dumping exhausts? I understand how a minority might control a majority that is under undo pressures as in the cited example given but I do wonder what tyrannical pressures could force the wanton of noise reduction. Where we have seen pressures for the other side cited such as economic pressures where the individuals contribute to the local economy or just scary guys on loud motorcycles (otherwise known as the Marlon Brando effect :) ). Manipulation of the Masses is certainly a real thing but free speech seems to be a diluting factor at the least. Sort of like whats happening here. A civil back and forth of facts and positions. I would not be so naive to say it couldn't happen today, but in somewhat open societies I would guess the odds drop dramatically.

Something I think needs restating on my part. I do not believe there will ever be exhaust inspection roadblocks in place. And I do not believe a nice tuned aftermarket exhaust will get enough attention without the rider initiating it. Sure some might push it too far on both sides. Maybe it will become like some of the custom cars around here that kept their stock exhausts but ran the glass packs and headers until busted. Then put the old system back on for recertification and then it's back to vavavoooom. There is just a lot of jerks that mess up stuff for others. I really don't mind the jerks getting nuckled down. But if the law isn't there then they are just going to keep being jerks. And there seems to be a multiplying factor when it comes to people being jerks. If a jerk is standing there just wait 5 minutes and there are three. Being a jerk can be a lot of fun. It is a personal opinion. Something tells me more than a few just said "You should know!. :woohoo: :P And you are right ...."I should!". :lol:

KZ900LTD, KZ750LTD, KZ650, 72'Triumph Trident
"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon,
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied
"If you seek for Eldorado!"

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02 Aug 2008 14:16 #229730 by steell
Replied by steell on topic Don't shoot the messanger!

And I do not believe a nice tuned aftermarket exhaust will get enough attention without the rider initiating it.


Some time back there was a discussion about bikes being nailed for aftermarket or modified exhaust in California, and some bike shops paid major fines.

It might have been EPA related though.

KD9JUR

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02 Aug 2008 15:57 #229743 by Locozuna
Replied by Locozuna on topic Don't shoot the messanger!
Yeah for stuff like that Cali (Luke! Use the Swartzenaeger!) is a different zip code altogether. And now being so many billions in the red will only get harder. But then again here in RI we are the smallest state and we are millions in the red and also talking about axing everything. Pretty sure we all get big tax brakes for being strict with safety/emissions.

KZ900LTD, KZ750LTD, KZ650, 72'Triumph Trident
"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon,
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied
"If you seek for Eldorado!"

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03 Aug 2008 07:30 #229832 by N0NB
Replied by N0NB on topic Don't shoot the messanger!
Keep preachin' Loco. Yours is the voice of reason and common sense, which is, unfortunately enough, not too common these days. Right now I can hear another gaggle of V-twins hammering their way out of town on their way to Sturgis. We get a fair amount of semi-truck traffic through town and yet its the V-twin bikes that can be heard the farthest. Interesting, no?

In my anecdotal experience I have yet to hear a bike before seeing it when traveling at highway speeds. I've observed bikes passing me on my left with their exhaust on their right and in no case could they be heard before the rear of the bike was even with the rear of my vehicle. Certainly, at that point the rider is in my blind spot so had I not known he was behind me, I should've at that point. When meeting a bike they cannot be heard until beside and then going away behind me.

In town at 30-35 MPH or less, the noise factor can favor the loud vehicle. I do hear the noise but still have to determine where it's coming from and whether it will become an issue for me. However, when there is too much noise, the bike becomes lost in the sea of traffic and other noise and the perceived advantage for the rider is lost.

As for the laws, no one needs to be blamed other than the discourteous "me first" types for their adoption. Yet, this simple logic is lost on many people and this is why "self policing" no longer works--too many people have bought into a "get even with 'em-ism" mentality.

The simple fact is that in the USA the law has been in place for 30 years that makes exhaust modifications illegal. What led us to this point was that the regulators ignored their own regulations and everyone else continued on with business as usual with no repercussions. Now, existing law is being enforced or new local law is being enacted based on existing federal law and everyone is suddenly crying, "Foul!" However, we've all known that the boom could be lowered at any time, and now when the majority of bikes are sporting some form of after market exhausts, motorcycles are being noticed, except not as motorcyclists, in general, had intended for their own safety.

So, here we stand, at the point where 30 years of lax law enforcement and the interests of the greater society intersect. I am not one bit surprised to see things moving in the direction they are.

When I was younger I screwed around with my vehicles to make them louder and more obnoxious. Back then there was no catchy slogan, it was done because we wanted the attention the noise would bring. At least I did it for no other reason. As I grew up I realized the noise was tiresome and I now drive stock vehicles and enjoy being able to hear my own thoughts. My crash rate has not worsened as I have become a better driver through frequent training by my employer and I still have a lot of room for improvement. And if noise and flashing lights prevented crashes, then buffoons wouldn't drive straight into the side of a train.

Nate

Nates vintage bike axiom: Riding is the reward for time spent wrenching.
Murphys corollary: Wrenching is the result of time spent riding.

1979 KZ650 (Complete!)
1979 KZ650 SR (Sold!)
1979 KL250 (For sale)
1994 Bayou 400 (four wheel peel :D )

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