Dies after warmed up

Hehe, I'm surprised you haven't cut the old one open. You could probably rewind the thing if you had some magnet wire and a lot of time.

F64 wrote: Hehe, I'm surprised you haven't cut the old one open. You could probably rewind the thing if you had some magnet wire and a lot of time.

Wait what??? Don’t temp me. I was staring at it at one point thinking of how to correct the innards. Lol What would be considered magnet wire cause I’ve got a spool of 030 mild and a magnetizer/de magnetizer block I can run the wire through as I’m winding.

Magnet wire is coated with a thin insulating coating. It looks like bare copper but it isn't.
www.remingtonindustries.com/magnet-wire/
No telling how many wraps is on that pickup coil though.
Could be hundreds.

Sorry to be offline a couple days. CV axles, ball joints, tie rod ends... always take longer than I expect. I really hate working on cars.

Anyway. Sorry to hear about the bad luck on the new pickup ohms. Yes 50 is probably too low. 150 might work, but poorly, and only if you can get is started which si difficult when the pickup produces a small signal. These low resistance pickups are probably meant to work with larger rotors which produce more signal. There's also a chance they don't have an internal magnet (and are meant to use an external magnet).

The photo you posted of the mounted new pickup looks good. The position of the rotor is just about where it will be when it fires, so when it's at that position, the "F" mark on the advancer should line up with the engine pointer. As you are looking at it, the crank rotates CCW (twins rotate opposite of the wheels, fours rotate the same way as the wheels). So the point of the rotor is just past the pickup pole. That's about where the spark happens. It may happen a touch closer, but always slightly past.

I wouldn't get any closer than about .5mm. There is some flex etc and the rotor could start to impact the pickup.

The no spark problem with the pickup could be a few things. Does the pickup center feel highly magnetized? If not, then you might need to add a magnet.

Since the resistance is so far off, the inductance is probably also pretty far off. There might still be a way to get spark with it.

I've cut open a few dead pickups. I would expect the break to be near where the wires attach to the internal wire. So I would try to start conservatively near where the wires attach.

BTW, those geocities links are for slightly outdated, scraped versions of those pages.

Here's more recent versions:
s3.amazonaws.com/gpzweb/Ignition/KzRelucSignalApprox_copy.GIF
s3.amazonaws.com/gpzweb/Ignition/GPZstockIgnitionNotes.txt
s3.amazonaws.com/gpzweb/index.html

Man I would’ve gladly traded jobs with you without hesitating. Hahaha. Reading some of the content in your links and I just got blank when the explanation of how everything works together. I’ve never dealt with diodes, resistors and the like. I wouldn’t know what to do if I had a handful of them and was told to “solder these up and make this work” so to speak? I’ll check the pickup when I get back to work. I might go in tomorrow cause just got confirmation the 2nd pick was delivered.

Forgot to mention, the direction of spin on the rotor does matter for dwell and signal intensity. But you don't really have a choice. The rotor is only going to spin the direction it needs to.

The pickup signal polarity is only affected by magnet polarity and wiring polarity. You can either flip the magnetism or swap the wires. Swapping wires is usually easier.

First thing is to detect magnetism.

By the way, can you see where the magnet is on the 440 pickup? I've never owned one to check.

The pickup signal is AC, but you use a DC meter to detect polarity in the manner I described on the polarity link.
s3.amazonaws.com/gpzweb/Ignition/PickupA.../PickupAndRotor.html

The AC signal is created by the fact that the pickup puts out a positive DC signal as the rotor-point approaches the pickup, then puts out a negative DC signal as the rotor-point recedes. When you put them together, they combine to give an overall AC signal. When you are detecting polarity, you are only concerned with part of the AC signal... which is a DC signal.

I don’t think my pickup has those magnets? I could be totally wrong though.
This is exactly what it looks like. I just googled for an image.
Unless the magnets are embedded under the plastic? I’m suppose to be painting a wall in a room where I removed a double French door and put a single in its place. But I’m googling the shit out of motorcycles pickups that resemble mine, then googling the test specs for each. Been doing that since 8 this morn. I’ve found nothing so far..Out of curiosity, I tried looking for dynas kit to see the price and if there’s anything extra needed and even looking at a kit from dynas website, then noticed fitment was for HDs?!.which kit is the one that can be used on a 440? I’d really like to find a lower priced pickup though for a replacement just so other folks whether from KZrider or another forum won’t have to search far and not worry about spending a gobs amount of money to replace an obsolete coil. Well at least I finished the stucco part of above mentioned wall:P

I assumed the magnet was inside the plastic. There has to be one somewhere in order to act like a tiny generator.

There is no Dyna S specifically for a Kz400/440/750-twin. People have taken one for an inline-four Kz and made that work. Basically you have to mount one of the two Dyna S pickup units, similarly to how you mounted that aftermarket pickup. The Dyna S comes with its own rotor that has a magnet embedded in it. It mounts to the advancer in place of your existing rotor. I'm not sure if the Dyna S rotor will just plop onto your advancer. Others have done it and it didn't seem too hard, so maybe it will just fit. You need a single Dyna S pickup so you can use one from an inline-four where one pickup is dead already. That might make it cheaper if you can find one. The electronics are inside the pickup so you don't use the igniter box anymore.

You will also have to buy a 3-ohm or higher ignition coil. The factory coil will be too low in resistance.

When you get time, you could try to connect up the other pickup. You don't have to mount it to test it. Just tapping the pickup with a screwdriver should make it spark. As a matter of fact, you could try that with the one you already mounted. It might create a brief stronger signal. That way you don't have to run down the starter and battery just to check for spark.

But again, first step is to confirm you have magnetism.

The little metal strip on the stock kz440 pickup facing the rotor is magnetic. I usually have to clean of the metal filings off that strip every so often The metal piece also an annoying habit of sticking to the rotor if the screws to the plate are loosened.

The internet is a dangerous place. I would be tempted to find a guitar shop.

www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-suppli...rEAQYBSABEgLpZPD_BwE


This will give you impedance numbers crossed with bike models
ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/search.php?...sprice=&stype=&scat=

People do rewind these things.
Trick is...how many winds of the coil.
I wish he showed how he wound the coil.


just in case you decide to do it. 2 coil calculators just to double check the math.
production-solution.com/coil-calculator.htm
www.daycounter.com/Calculators/Coil-Phys...ies-Calculator.phtml

A few of those pickups at Rick's look promising. I wish more of them had the vertical pole piece rather than round. It may not matter, but I would think the vertical center would be more precise and would give a more "focused" signal.

I guess my main problem is the price. None of them are cheap. At least, not Chrysler pickup cheap ($. Ha

Turns out I have two Dodge/Chrysler pickups. One measures 340 ohms and the other measures 400 ohms, so they are right in the ballpark. I'll try to get some measurements on physical dimensions.

I also have a nice small pickup from a Datsun 260z, and maybe it would be the same as one on a 280z. It looks basically the same as the 280 pickups I see in photos. The 260 was only offered in 1974. The 280's were more popular and were offered 75 to 78, I think, so there are probably more of them. It measures 700 ohms so it's a bit high. It's about the same shape as the Chrysler pickup but just a scaled down version. I'll try to get photos and dimensions of that as well.

And I'll explore the rewinding option on my end. I think I have my old coil. I just need to buy some wire.
Tig, you'll be pretty knowledgeable about pickup coils after all of this.
I'll report back with my findings.