Dies after warmed up

No eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configuration"Nothing" meaning infinite resistance? Then yes it would be bad.
488 ohms should still work. Changing to infinite when hot would cause what you describe.

Unfortunately, it has to be one from a Kz twin if you want a simple bolt-in replacement. The ones from the fours use an external magnet.

Not cheap.


If you can find a generic pickup for a variable reluctance system (aka inductive pickup, not hall-effect), and can mount it so it detects the rotor, it may work.
You can use the polarity tests using a voltmeter to determine how to hook it up.
The black pickup wire is the one I refer to as positive.
The blue pickup wire is the one I refer to as negative.
s3.amazonaws.com/gpzweb/Ignition/PickupA.../PickupAndRotor.html

Out of curiosity, is the engine original to the bike? I can't find a kickstart system in the 440 parts fiches.

The meter just displayed zeros. I even went through all the range settings on ohms, and it just displayed OL. There was a brief moment when I probed the wires that showed some sort of reading but quickly dropped down to 0.

Yes my motor is original to the bike. 1989 kz440a. At one point when I had my motor out because of rod knock, I had this idea of “wonder if I can add kickstart to this”. I got a complete gear set and kickstart assembly from a kz400, not knowing the 400 was a 5spd and the gear mesh was also different something I found out right away with my 440 1st gear not meshing with the kickstart gear. I did t even try to see if I could just simply swap the entire 400 headset out with my 440 because I wanted to keep it 6spd. I got the required/key info needed from a member here after posting my dilemma in my build thread. I was then able to get everything to work like it should. Some machining of 1st gear and the dogs to engage 6th and marching 6th gear to make it all fit and I was in business. The only thing that I forgot to take into account was my foot peg and rear brake lever. That was a total facepalm moment for me. But after staring for a few hours I got creative and overcame that hurdle. Im thankful for all the info/advice I get from forum members like yourself here has been the most help really and having a small machine shop at my disposal also:P

No eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationNo eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationNo eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationWow, nice job retaining the 6 speeds and adding a kick. That's one of those projects that I bet no one really notices at bike shows, but when someone does, it completely blows their mind. We've got to get that motor back running.

Alright is sounds like the pickup is becoming open, as in the internal wire has a break in it.

You would be breaking new ground to try a pickup from another bike or a generic pickup. It might work.
I would remove the pickup so we can get some accurate measurements.
I've been wondering if a MSD 4316 pickup would work as a substitute. But they are not cheap either... around $60.
They are for watercraft, so there is no exposed pole piece, but I think it will still work.


One from a small car that sold a million might be best, like a Civic or something, but I haven't looked into it.

Here's one I used to see a lot. It's from a Honda scooter 150. I don't see them as much anymore. I don't like the way the wire comes out on top. Top clearance is going to be a battle.


I may have to look at industrial pickups. Unfortunately, most are now cheap hall-sensors instead of inductive.

There is this other brand I saw a lot years ago called "Gill". They are a UK company and they used to have a little round blue pickup that I considered a possibility. I don't see it on ebay anymore.

I have an old school Mopar pickup. If it fits physically, you might be able to use that. I can experiment with the one I have to see if it works, electrically. It's big and ugly though. At least it's dirt cheap.


I can take some measurements of the Chrysler pickup if you think you want to try it.

It would be nice to find dimensions on that MSD pickup since it's a really nice-looking, sealed unit.

No eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configuration

loudhvx wrote: "Nothing" meaning infinite resistance? Then yes it would be bad.
488 ohms should still work. Changing to infinite when hot would cause what you describe.

Unfortunately, it has to be one from a Kz twin if you want a simple bolt-in replacement. The ones from the fours use an external magnet.

Not cheap.


Yeah I saw this listing and agree it’s a bit pricey for 35+yo electric parts?

If you can find a generic pickup for a variable reluctance system (aka inductive pickup, not hall-effect), and can mount it so it detects the rotor, it may work.
You can use the polarity tests using a voltmeter to determine how to hook it up.
The black pickup wire is the one I refer to as positive.
The blue pickup wire is the one I refer to as negative.
s3.amazonaws.com/gpzweb/Ignition/PickupA.../PickupAndRotor.html

Since this has turned into an electrical issue so far, can I please ask a moderator move this over to the electrical department? keep it appropriate. I’m fair game of being a pulser coil guinea pig for a 440.

No eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationNo eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationNo eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configuration

loudhvx wrote: Wow, nice job retaining the 6 speeds and adding a kick. That's one of those projects that I bet no one really notices at bike shows, but when someone does, it completely blows their mind. We've got to get that motor back running.

Alright is sounds like the pickup is becoming open, as in the internal wire has a break in it.

You would be breaking new ground to try a pickup from another bike or a generic pickup. It might work.
I would remove the pickup so we can get some accurate measurements.
I've been wondering if a MSD 4316 pickup would work as a substitute. But they are not cheap either... around $60.
They are for watercraft, so there is no exposed pole piece, but I think it will still work.


One from a small car that sold a million might be best, like a Civic or something, but I haven't looked into it.

Here's one I used to see a lot. It's from a Honda scooter 150. I don't see them as much anymore. I don't like the way the wire comes out on top. Top clearance is going to be a battle.


I may have to look at industrial pickups. Unfortunately, most are now cheap hall-sensors instead of inductive.

There is this other brand I saw a lot years ago called "Gill". They are a UK company and they used to have a little round blue pickup that I considered a possibility. I don't see it on ebay anymore.

I have an old school Mopar pickup. If it fits physically, you might be able to use that. I can experiment with the one I have to see if it works, electrically. It's big and ugly though. At least it's dirt cheap.


I can take some measurements of the Chrysler pickup if you think you want to try it.

It would be nice to find dimensions on that MSD pickup since it's a really nice-looking, sealed unit.

I think I’ve seen the MSD one for maybe $67 from summits website. Also available from Oreallys and Autozone. I don’t mind big and ugly with the mopar one. If needed to, I can trim down the base it’s molded on to allow the advancer to fit.
So far I’ve only came across a Caltric and Kimpex both of which aren’t direct bolt ons. The Caltric pick is “round” where as the “kimpex” is a line more or less just like the stock one. I’m sure I’d wanna keep that feature as well as making sure it’s a reluctant type, with any pickup I find regardless.

Thanks for the relocation.
I know at my shop, I might have a sensor that I may be able to try I’d just have to find it first?? The 90% of the ones that I know I can easily locate are gonna hall. It’s what the majority of stand-alone ecus we normally use for applications.
My neighboring motorcycle shop offered me this. It’s off a BMW R75 haven’t physically held it in my hands yet so don’t know actual size and it’s operation type.
I hope I can get this sorted before the season ends? Lol. Or at least in time for DGR in Sep.

I knew sooner or later I was going to have to bite the bullet, so I ordered the MSD pickup. We'll see if it works electrically.

No eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationNo eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationNo eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configuration

I_Tig_in_piece wrote:

loudhvx wrote: Wow, nice job retaining the 6 speeds and adding a kick. That's one of those projects that I bet no one really notices at bike shows, but when someone does, it completely blows their mind. We've got to get that motor back running.

Alright is sounds like the pickup is becoming open, as in the internal wire has a break in it.

You would be breaking new ground to try a pickup from another bike or a generic pickup. It might work.
I would remove the pickup so we can get some accurate measurements.
I've been wondering if a MSD 4316 pickup would work as a substitute. But they are not cheap either... around $60.
They are for watercraft, so there is no exposed pole piece, but I think it will still work.




Here's one I used to see a lot. It's from a Honda scooter 150. I don't see them as much anymore. I don't like the way the wire comes out on top. Top clearance is going to be a battle.


I have an old school Mopar pickup. If it fits physically, you might be able to use that. I can experiment with the one I have to see if it works, electrically. It's big and ugly though. At least it's dirt cheap.


I can take some measurements of the Chrysler pickup if you think you want to try it.

I’ve got my pick up completely out. The black wires sheathing is pulled away from the coils body a little, bit still seems intact. Did another ohm test while fiddling with the wires thinking that the black wire would be the culprit but it was actually the blue one that gets the meter moving. Anyways, I’ve pretty much concluded that finding a NOS part/direct fit is not gonna happen and that I likely have a better chance of a Bigfoot sighting? I know I’ll most likely need to make a mounting plate to mount the new coil on to the cover that’ll probably need some strategic up/down bends to sit at the right height of the advancer I’ve got another clutch cover (the original one w/o the kickstart hole) as well as a crank to use for mock up fitment when the time comes. Which will be as soon as I get the sensor I ordered.
I googled “motorcycles that use a VR type pick up” wasnt very informative unless I read the specs of all the bikes at which point 90% of them wouldn’t tell me if it was. I could read a repair manual for each bike, but I’d have butt sores sitting on the porcelain throne for that many hours??! Lol!
So my question is....Is there any physical tell tale signs to determine if a sensor is VR or Hall? All the hall sensors I’ve dealt with have been the typical plastic crank/cam sensors (non-motorcycle engines) Some aftermarket ones from Motec were just like a 2wire pick up for a wheel speed sensor on universal speedos.
Speaking of sensors...this is the one I ordered. Impulse buy. Haven’t even researched if it’s the type I need? :whistle:

Oh and what ever measurements you need me to take, let me know. I’ve got measuring devices and rumor has it that my phone is the shit for mobile phone cameras:P

Unfortunately, there is no guaranteed way to tell by a photo if something is a Hall sensor or VR pickup.

Generally, Hall sensors can be much smaller, so if it's really tiny, then it's almost always a Hall, but being small makes it fragile so for automotive use it will be in a larger package.

Another general rule, but certainly not always the case is that if the Hall sensor is only detecting one or two pulses per revolution, the magnet will be on the rotor instead of inside the pickup. But some more sophisticated Hall sensors will use an internal magnet, especially if it's used to detect a toothed-wheel. So it helps to know what the rotor looks like that it will be sensing. And I guess the literature would have to say if there is an internal magnet or not since a photo won't be obvious.

VR pickups usually have a visible pole-piece. If it's used for strict timing like on the Kz, the pole-piece is a vertical metal strip (it actually goes all the way through the pickup coil). Same on the Chrysler etc. This is where the rotor determines the timing. If the timing will be determined electronically based on a varying rotor signal, the pole piece may be round. This can be seen on ZX 550/750 pickups which use electronic advance. For our Kz ignitions, the vertical pole-piece will be more precise, so is probably preferred.

Hall sensors present a small plate to the rotor if the rotor has a rotating magnet. So it will be entirely covered in plastic or have a small square surface facing the rotor, like can be seen on a Dyna S system.

If you see a magnet under the base of the pickup like the Chrysler pickup or inline-four Kz's, it's usually a VR pickup. But really, probably a more telling clue is whether it's new or old. Old is VR, new being Hall.

To add to the confusion, some people use "Hall" sensor to mean any kind of sensor nowadays, including VR pickups. This is like the way some people call everything CDI even though most electronic ignitions are not CDI.

That one you bought looks good. How much was it?
I wonder if a Honda Cub scooter uses a VR pickup. That's like the most produced vehicle of all time.
EDIT: I don't see any Cub pickup that looks promising on ebay.

I figured that would be the cause. I’ve only ran into one pickup that actually listed the type it was. I paid $30 shipped, and I just got the tracking number saying it’ll be here by Thursday?! There’s another one I’m gonna impulse buy in hopes that I’ll maybe have 2 to try out?
This ones only $12 shipped. Hope I did the link right?
I’ll just post the pic..