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1982 KZ1000p project progress

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05 Dec 2014 19:48 #655455 by floivanus
Replied by floivanus on topic 1982 KZ1000p project progress
The valve with too much clearance is bent.

You sanded the valve shims? I dint believe that to be good practice, they are case hardened and could be ground out of true causing the engine to spit one out

my bikes; 80kz1000(project), 77 gl1000, 74 h2 (project)
Past; 78 kz1000, 83 kz550
Andrew

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05 Dec 2014 20:56 - 05 Dec 2014 21:15 #655462 by blakeem
Replied by blakeem on topic 1982 KZ1000p project progress

floivanus wrote: The valve with too much clearance is bent.

You sanded the valve shims? I dint believe that to be good practice, they are case hardened and could be ground out of true causing the engine to spit one out


I slowly sanded 2 of them down by something like 0.2-0.3 mm by hand on a flat metal plate while constantly measuring them from all angles using a digital caliper to make sure they were perfectly flat. When finished they were as accurate as the machined shims. It was that or wait a week for new shims to be shipped because I called every shop in San Diego and couldn't find the size I needed. The rebuild was taking far too long because the machine shop had to do the valves twice due to major valve leaks the first time. I have a much better shop to use next time.

They were extremely hard so it took about 30 minutes per shim and I got blisters so I wouldn't recommend it unless desperate.
Last edit: 05 Dec 2014 21:15 by blakeem.

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06 Dec 2014 04:17 #655469 by Patton
Replied by Patton on topic 1982 KZ1000p project progress

floivanus wrote: ...You sanded the valve shims? I dint believe that to be good practice, they are case hardened and could be ground out of true causing the engine to spit one out

+1
The FSM specifically cautions against grinding a valve shim, saying it may cause the shim to fracture.

My understanding is that the shims are case-hardened, and that regardless of perfect grinding, the original hardened surface is weakened or completed removed.

Good Fortune! :)

1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD

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06 Dec 2014 05:20 #655470 by ed spangler
Replied by ed spangler on topic 1982 KZ1000p project progress

Patton wrote:

floivanus wrote: ...You sanded the valve shims? I dint believe that to be good practice, they are case hardened and could be ground out of true causing the engine to spit one out

+1
The FSM specifically cautions against grinding a valve shim, saying it may cause the shim to fracture.

My understanding is that the shims are case-hardened, and that regardless of perfect grinding, the original hardened surface is weakened or completed removed.

Good Fortune! :)


+2
No way I would do that, Sorry!
They aren't that expensive, I am sure if you knew what size you needed a member on here could help ya out!!. Or, Z1 Enterprises sells them individually.
Good Luck!
Ed

Have 1975 Kawasaki Z1-B & 2003 Harley Davidson Heritage Softail Classic
Had Hondas, Harleys and many ,many Z Series Kaws both Std. & LTD's

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  • SWest
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  • 10 22 2014
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06 Dec 2014 05:29 #655471 by SWest
Replied by SWest on topic 1982 KZ1000p project progress

blakeem wrote:

floivanus wrote: The valve with too much clearance is bent.

You sanded the valve shims? I dint believe that to be good practice, they are case hardened and could be ground out of true causing the engine to spit one out


I slowly sanded 2 of them down by something like 0.2-0.3 mm by hand on a flat metal plate while constantly measuring them from all angles using a digital caliper to make sure they were perfectly flat. When finished they were as accurate as the machined shims. It was that or wait a week for new shims to be shipped because I called every shop in San Diego and couldn't find the size I needed. The rebuild was taking far too long because the machine shop had to do the valves twice due to major valve leaks the first time. I have a much better shop to use next time.

They were extremely hard so it took about 30 minutes per shim and I got blisters so I wouldn't recommend it unless desperate.



That's what happened. You can order 29mm shims from jetsrus on line. 3 day turn around time. My last order was delayed by Pay Pal so from now on, if I don't get a e-mail telling me it's shipped by the next day, I send Mike a e-mail and he takes care of it.
You might have to have the new shop tip the valves due to the old one taking out too much.
I have a saying, I didn't fall through the cracks, I was shoved!
Steve

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06 Dec 2014 06:01 #655475 by floivanus
Replied by floivanus on topic 1982 KZ1000p project progress
He's gonna have to have new valves done; basically already indicated that he has at least one bent valve.
Kind of strange that one of the shims shattered. Too wide of clearance on that cylinder? Seems like it would take a good impact to shatter one of the shims.

my bikes; 80kz1000(project), 77 gl1000, 74 h2 (project)
Past; 78 kz1000, 83 kz550
Andrew

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  • SWest
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  • 10 22 2014
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06 Dec 2014 06:30 #655477 by SWest
Replied by SWest on topic 1982 KZ1000p project progress
We talked. He told me of a lot of Heli coils in the head and old shims. I told him it was a service bike and the shop "yard" re uses the shims for years. He might buy another head. The problem with that is having to go through it as well. The trans. sounds like it's worn out too. I got one for mine for about $60, back cut it myself and no more popping out of 2nd gear. This one had 30k miles. My old one had 87+k. Popping out of gear on hard acceleration can nick valves an destroy a engine. That's the most used passing gear. It's so frustrating having to sit behind some cage dummy waiting to pass like a old Honda 350 wile knowing I had the power to leave him in my fumes but can't.
Warning; don't buy a set without bearing caps. I've seen them for sale but them being missing suggests the bearings are damaged and or worn out.
Steve

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06 Dec 2014 07:26 #655482 by turboking
Replied by turboking on topic 1982 KZ1000p project progress
i've seen this before in engines that I've repaired.....:S ..........some one ground the valve shims, result, fracturing/breakage after grinding the shim.....bad idea :huh: results in more engine damage .... :blink:

2005 Kawasaki mean streak
2000 325 H.P. mcXpress turbo Hayabusa
1979 kz 1000 mk II ATP turbo
1975 Z1 960 cc Mr. Turbo
1975 Z1 1428 big block ATP turbo
1976 Kz900 1103 cc ATP turbo
1985 GS 1150E
1983 GS 1100E
1997 Suzuki Bandit 1200S
2001 Kawasaki EX 500 Ninja
1972 Honda cb750 (836cc turbo)

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  • SWest
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  • 10 22 2014
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06 Dec 2014 07:42 #655483 by SWest
Replied by SWest on topic 1982 KZ1000p project progress
Back in the 70's when I bent valves due to a broken chain, I had a problem. No shims, no shop for 60 miles, tight valves. I took a beer can, cut some shims out of it and put them under the bearings. I punched a hole it them for the oil passages and shimmed under the cam towers. It worked. I got my shims, put them in on site and thanked god I didn't spit out the other shims while going there.
Desperation leads to desperate measures.
Steve

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06 Dec 2014 11:28 - 06 Dec 2014 12:19 #655491 by blakeem
Replied by blakeem on topic 1982 KZ1000p project progress

turboking wrote: i've seen this before in engines that I've repaired.....:S ..........some one ground the valve shims, result, fracturing/breakage after grinding the shim.....bad idea :huh: results in more engine damage .... :blink:


The shims that I sanded down did not break, it was one of the original shims with a machined finished on both sides that shattered. I sanded the shims by .015 mm (very little) on both sides to leave as much hardened surface as possible and finished wet sanding with 1000+ grit sand paper until they had a uniform mirror finish. They didn't leave any scoring on the cam shaft lobes and were equal thickness all the way around.

What I learned from this is that I should just replace all the shims with brand new ones because they can get brittle over time.
Last edit: 06 Dec 2014 12:19 by blakeem.

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  • Oh, the usual... I bowl, I drive around...
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06 Dec 2014 13:11 #655500 by DoctoRot
Replied by DoctoRot on topic 1982 KZ1000p project progress
If you want brand new shims and you're getting your shims from a dealer, make sure you ask for new ones. alot of the time they will sell you used ones. the oldschool shops will let you swap shims.
The following user(s) said Thank You: blakeem

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  • SWest
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  • 10 22 2014
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06 Dec 2014 13:19 #655503 by SWest
Replied by SWest on topic 1982 KZ1000p project progress
Yeah Sams will for $5. I used to have an assortment until my son left them out in the rain. He liked to sabotage things. He resents everyone. My daughter is just the opposite. Go figure.

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