TOPIC:

I commend you on the build. It will be a very nice piece. With that being said, I have been considering a an engine build utilizing an MTC billet block and 1400cc's. I have been thinking about the heat as well, and was considering the option of wrapping the block with 3/8" or so copper tubing into the area between the fins. The having a small electric pump to circulate water through the tubing and up to a fan and cooler combo under the seat. Haven't run any numbers on the thermal heat rejection numbers, but I am thinking it may just help it keep its cool in traffic in summer.....

Cory

can't wait to see how this turns out !


leon

If you are going to attempt to liquid cool the block, you might want to order a custom billet block from MTC or Fast by Gast and have a water jacket fabricated surrounding that...

Keep in mind that in a water cooled engine, most of the heat is generated in, and gets dissipated out of, the cylinder head, so...

Holy hell.

Wish I had balls that big ...... I'd be too scared to really stand on it. ..... Love it though.

jberger635 wrote: Thanks guys!
One of the big hurdles in any big block project is dealing with the heat from not having space in between the cylinder liners for air to pass through.
As I do want this to be a daily driver and have potential for sitting in rush hour traffic I'm running a dual oil cooler setup. There will be one at the front that will be fed from the factory oil cooler outlet on the case. Then run it in series to the mini earls cooler at the back all with -10AN fittings and hose. From the ear cooler it will tee off to a top end cooler and back into the case to feed the crank. This will be a dry block setup as well.

Dont have the front cooler or the lines done yet. Currently working on cleaning an polishing the exhaust ports and combustion chambers. Not so much for flow purposes but mostly to keep the carbon from forming. Engines will run cooler if there is no carbon buildup in the cylinder head.

With a proper tune, good oil coolers, and good oil flow through the head im hoping this thing will be able to take some stop-and-go traffic.

I am building a MTC big block 1395 side by side with jberger. Berger's will clearly be "over the top" when it is done.

I have similar thoughts on keeping the thing cool - using dual oil coolers and external oil feeds to the top end. I am also running dual plug and will cut back the ignition advance to avoid heat and detonation. One idea I'm going to try is separate oil feeds to flood the cam lobes directly from the top of the H cover. Egli did that with their turbo GPz engines. More sump volume or an external oil reservoir might also be worth trying. I believe keeping the oil cool and flowing fast is the way to go. Think - high mountain glacial river or a windy winter day - that's the theory.

Next is to make sure the engine gets exposed to all the air it can get. Extra fins, fans, and wisely placed air ducts might be worth trying. As far as polishing the chambers and exhaust ports - I agree! Back when I built racing V-8 car engines for a living, we ran some experiments on the dyno polishing the chambers and exhaust ports to mirror finishes. It appeared to make a difference. The water temps were always lower and, bonus, the parts stayed cleaner between engine teardowns and refresh. Usually, if there was any carbon build up, it would wipe clean with carb spray. At least with racing fuels... I've seen results - I am a believer.

As far as wrapping the cylinder block with a water jacket, it will work if it is done very carefully. But if I wanted a water cooled engine, I would have started with one...

I'll take this opportunity to pay tribute and thank all the fine people who have guided and participated: jberger, Speedway Freddie, Ralph H., Larry Cavanaugh, Jay @APE, Larry @ Dynatek, Sean @ Falicon, Paul @ Fast by Gast, Joe @ PSP, Star Racing, Shnitz, Z1 Ent., and Dynoman Performance. (Sorry Zak - Suzuki's just aren't as cool!)

Where would us KZ fans (fanatics?) be without these folks...

Do you think that ceramic coating the piston crowns, chambers and ports might help with cooling by passing the heat out rather than letting it soak into the head?

TexasKZ wrote: Do you think that ceramic coating the piston crowns, chambers and ports might help with cooling by passing the heat out rather than letting it soak into the head?

From a purely "lab" setting absolutely.... ceramic coating typically offers two main advantages. One of them is reduction in friction which increases lifespan of parts. The second is that it acts as a thermal barrier either keeping heat in (coating inside of headers to keep the heat retained and move it out quicker and increase velocity) or keeping heat out (just the reverse). In the real world this still holds true, however the benefits may or may not be as great as lab testing would show since there are so many more variables and can't keep things exactly the same from one change to another.

So I would say that yes it is beneficial but I really am not sure the cost would justify the high cost of doing so. If you did I would say you would want to coat the pistons, combustion chamber and headers at the minimum. Just my two cents..

Brett

Water?
For me...
my scooter...
my car...
my bike...

No water please!

Irish-Kawi wrote:

TexasKZ wrote: Do you think that ceramic coating the piston crowns, chambers and ports might help with cooling by passing the heat out rather than letting it soak into the head?

From a purely "lab" setting absolutely.... ceramic coating typically offers two main advantages. One of them is reduction in friction which increases lifespan of parts. The second is that it acts as a thermal barrier either keeping heat in (coating inside of headers to keep the heat retained and move it out quicker and increase velocity) or keeping heat out (just the reverse). In the real world this still holds true, however the benefits may or may not be as great as lab testing would show since there are so many more variables and can't keep things exactly the same from one change to another.

So I would say that yes it is beneficial but I really am not sure the cost would justify the high cost of doing so. If you did I would say you would want to coat the pistons, combustion chamber and headers at the minimum. Just my two cents..

Brett

Yep, coating would make sense on paper. Definitely the headers. Not the intake ports! My fear of coating engine internal surfaces would be a fragment of hard ceramic coating becoming dislodged and destroying the engine...maybe only coat the exhaust ports - maybe...

And yes, I am aware that many engines have ceramic coated cylinders...but I still wouldn't trust coated piston crowns and combustion chambers...

i have ran locally ceramic coated domes and teflon coated skirts on forged wiseco pistons in my banshee for years with great results.

the teflon is like bearings for the skirt and the ceramic helps protect the the dome from lean outs.

imho,
leon

Not super into the water cooled idea, sounds like a bunch of extra weight and an eyesore as well. I will report my findings on overheating with the dual oil cooler and top end oiler setup. A small rear mounted fan will likely be an addition to the rear cooler.

Kray-Z and i have been putting our heads together on these builds and hes helped me nearly every step of the way,hes also always offered to help out with his milling machine fabricating parts for our bikes. He knows his shit too.

Out of town this week and not able to work on the bike for a bit. When I come back ill be fabbing up my custom intake manifold.

I dont want to run pod filters due to poor performance caused by turbulence and hot air intake. I also dont want to run velocity stacks on an engine that I just spent too many thousands of $$$ on. So underneath the seat will be a dual flange air filter with two 2-1 merge collectors going into the 4 throttle bodies. A heat shield between the engine and underseat area will also be fabbed to keep the hot air out. Pics to come when its all built.