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Nelson's KZ1000 Fighter? build 22 Oct 2012 11:54 #555154

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Nelson wrote: I just measured the new, big bore cometic gasket. It's .053 uncompressed. It's labeled .043 so I imagine that is a compressed number. So if I add my current deck height of .024 and .043 I end up with .067" total.

This assumes that the used base gasket is the same thickness as the new one.

Actually I imagine none of this really matters much right now - what really matters is the clay measurements I get with everything assembled.


this is correct.
so if u want to change this end number of .067" which is the squish clearance, or head to piston clearance. u would mill the cylinder deck hight, or in some cases, u would change the base gasket thickness.
a .020" base gasket will compress to maybe .018". the head gasket will end up around .040" after compression. r u using heavy duty studs and torquing to 42ft.lbs ? if not, u should consider this as a must do. i have had a .043" head gasket compress to as little as .037". this is why racers use copper gaskets. u get consistent #'s. bigger bores seem to compress the gasket more. (less gasket surface area left to compress).
u cannot guaranty these #'s will always be the same, so u need a little cushion. so aim for .040" bare min and .050" max. remember, this is just a street motor.no need to split hairs.
the reason we want low squish #s, is not for power, but to reduce the chance of detonation.

i re-bored the oil passage on my cyl to account for the fact that the heavy cyl studs r about 070" thicker. is it necessaries??? just makes sense to me.
i also copied a page from poppy yosh's book and drilled holes in the cooling fins of the block and took a grinding stone to any casting flash on the head to improve air flow.
76 KZ, frame gusset work,1200CC.Ported by Larry Cavanaugh, 1.5mm.over intakes, Carron Pipe, ZRX12 rear end, and seat,96zx9 front end.
01 CBR600F4i Track bike.
Cobourg, Ont. Can.

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Nelson's KZ1000 Fighter? build 22 Oct 2012 23:23 #555294

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Thanks much, I will probably put it together as is with the .067 total. Unless there's some reason that is a really bad idea. I am going to do the clay check first to see the actual clearance before I decide. It seems like a little more squish space (and the slightly lower compression that comes with it) would make it LESS likely to detonate...?? Wouldn't it?

No I didn't get the HD studs... Every little thing for these motors is so bloody expensive! I did make a lame attempt at removing a few of the studs, but it was clear that getting them out was going to be a big pain requiring heat and much cursing.
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Nelson's KZ1000 Fighter? build 22 Oct 2012 23:33 #555299

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Nelson wrote: Thanks much, I will probably put it together as is with the .067 total. Unless there's some reason that is a really bad idea. I am going to do the clay check first to see the actual clearance before I decide. It seems like a little more squish space (and the slightly lower compression that comes with it) would make it LESS likely to detonate...?? Wouldn't it?

NO, it doesnt work that way.
less compression will , but we r not talking about compression, we r talking about squish. squish is there for 1 reason. to speed the movement of the fuel mix towards the flame front. this prevents detonation. but lots of guys have gotten by withough reducing the clearance here. i just prefer to do it the best way i can. u may need a Dayna 2000 to help with ping though??

No I didn't get the HD studs... Every little thing for these motors is so bloody expensive! I did make a lame attempt at removing a few of the studs, but it was clear that getting them out was going to be a big pain requiring heat and much cursing.


HD studs r a must have. or u will be dealing with leaks for sure. imo.
76 KZ, frame gusset work,1200CC.Ported by Larry Cavanaugh, 1.5mm.over intakes, Carron Pipe, ZRX12 rear end, and seat,96zx9 front end.
01 CBR600F4i Track bike.
Cobourg, Ont. Can.

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Nelson's KZ1000 Fighter? build 23 Oct 2012 00:44 #555315

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crap... thanks Mark, but of course not what I want to hear now that the bottom end is painted and assembled.

Anyone else got an opinion on this? The only mod I'm doing to the engine is the 1075 kit. I think the pistons are 10.25:1 compression. All else is stock. Kinda thought I'd be OK with stock studs.
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Nelson's KZ1000 Fighter? build 23 Oct 2012 00:53 #555318

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its never too late. just turn the bolts the other way and it comes back apart. :lol:
no professional build would build without them.
u can run stock studs, but u can't torque them as tight as the hd studs(40ft lbs). they will stretch. they r made for low compression. so u run the risk of more leaks. if u dont mind leaks or a redo latter. no problem. some guys get away with it, no leaks. i'm just trying to give u the info. u can run stock if u like. ;)

did u check the springs in the back of your clutch basket??
76 KZ, frame gusset work,1200CC.Ported by Larry Cavanaugh, 1.5mm.over intakes, Carron Pipe, ZRX12 rear end, and seat,96zx9 front end.
01 CBR600F4i Track bike.
Cobourg, Ont. Can.

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Nelson's KZ1000 Fighter? build 23 Oct 2012 01:17 #555322

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HD studs would be good to have but not necassary with what you are doing. I have been running a 1075 kit with 10.25-1 compression for many, many years without any leaks. Using a fiber head gasket. With this lower compression, stock studs should be fine. If you were to run higher compression or turbo, etc. then the HD studs would be a must have. It wouldn't be much to put in the HD studs with just the cases together though. Good insurance. What Mark is telling you is good advice...
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Nelson's KZ1000 Fighter? build 23 Oct 2012 23:12 #555502

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Yes I did check the springs in the back of clutch basket. they ain't broke, so I left 'em alone.

In my endless quest for knowledge I sent an email to Wiseco regarding studs. This is what I got back:

"The stock cylinder studs will be okay for this kit."

Alan Pizzino
Technical Sales
Wiseco Performance Products


So I'm leaning towards keeping what I got. Maybe I should spray the base gasket and head gasket with coppercoat for extra insurance? Somebody on KZR was raving about that a while back. I haven't used it myself tho.
Restoring and customizing a KZ1000. Click here to read about it.
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Nelson's KZ1000 Fighter? build 23 Oct 2012 23:19 #555504

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most guys put stock gaskets in dry.
some put oil on them some copperkote(it was made for copper gaskets though), some yamabond, 3 bond. lots of recipies to choose from.
most go dry though.
76 KZ, frame gusset work,1200CC.Ported by Larry Cavanaugh, 1.5mm.over intakes, Carron Pipe, ZRX12 rear end, and seat,96zx9 front end.
01 CBR600F4i Track bike.
Cobourg, Ont. Can.

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Nelson's KZ1000 Fighter? build 23 Oct 2012 23:19 #555505

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By the way- do my pistons look like 10.25:1 to you guys? I trusted the ebay seller who labeled them that way, and they seem to match pictures I've seen, but I really don't know how to be sure.
Restoring and customizing a KZ1000. Click here to read about it.
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Nelson's KZ1000 Fighter? build 23 Oct 2012 23:26 #555509

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Nelson wrote: By the way- do my pistons look like 10.25:1 to you guys? I trusted the ebay seller who labeled them that way, and they seem to match pictures I've seen, but I really don't know how to be sure.


yes they do, but u should send them to me. i'll put them in a big blck i have here and test them for u. i'll let u know next year if they r any good.




:P
76 KZ, frame gusset work,1200CC.Ported by Larry Cavanaugh, 1.5mm.over intakes, Carron Pipe, ZRX12 rear end, and seat,96zx9 front end.
01 CBR600F4i Track bike.
Cobourg, Ont. Can.

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Nelson's KZ1000 Fighter? build 24 Oct 2012 00:06 #555515

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yup I'll get 'em out to you asap... :P
Restoring and customizing a KZ1000. Click here to read about it.
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Nelson's KZ1000 Fighter? build 02 Nov 2012 20:34 #556842

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I've just lapped all the valves. It seems that material is only removed from the valves and not the seats. The valves have a nice even mark on them, but the seats look as if I didn't touch them at all. they are pretty dang hard I guess.

It's annoying because there is very slight pitting in the ex seats, but lapping doesn't affect them at all.

I filled combustion chambers with kerosene to check for leaks. The ex valves have just a tiny bit of seepage... :angry: This was with only gravity holding the valves in place, no springs.

Hmmm.... well it was a good running engine with good compression when I took it apart....

Maybe I should ask a shop if they can do a light cut on the ex seats and nothing else. What say you? :huh:
Restoring and customizing a KZ1000. Click here to read about it.
Plated KTM, DR650, KZ1000, Former MC mechanic (eons ago). 40 yrs. of dirt and street.

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