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KZombie
- wrenchmonkey
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02 Jun 2016 05:55 #729623
by wrenchmonkey
Replied by wrenchmonkey on topic KZombie
Gooooood Morrrrrning KZR!
Well gents, I really do appreciate the positive responses. It's especially nice because I know each and every one of you have been where I am now. The process is, in itself, a reward for me. I guess the restoration process is something I enjoy almost as much as hopping on the saddle and twisting the right grip.
Progress has been hampered lately by crazy work schedule and even crazier weather. All the years I lived in Austin we were in constant water restrictions and drought and one of the first things I noticed when my darling better half and I started looking around Waco was how many folks were running sprinklers (verboten in Austin) and then after moving here late last year, how often it rains. It's been nearly daily or at least weekly. Kinda' feel like we moved to Old Blighty some days! :laugh:
No new pics to show unfortunately but I am trying to plug a couple hours a day into the project. Mainly all grunt work to clean and prep random frame pieces like peg mounts, muffler hangers but also a major change I decided upon on the holiday... I am going to paint the front fender (not new news) AND I decided that I'm going to also paint and use the rear fender too. I figured, KZombie had few pretty parts left on it but damnit they were on it, so, I have been prepping them both for paint along with their various pieces/struts/light mounts. The real change however is the paint color. I was going to only use the front fender and paint it tank/skin color - the blue - but now flipped on this and decided to paint them with the metallic, pearl black instead. My thinking is it will "help?" minimize their appearance being black but also it saves me from having to engineer some kinda rear tail light mount if I only went with the duck tail fairing. As I don't have access to my shop tools, fabricating in steel is somewhat limited at the moment and in truth, I always planned to restore KZombie to stock-form-ish.
Not too long ago (Blip ), I had decided to swap the handlebars of KZombie with the 1000CSR which had non-stock handlebars on it. So now it has the black bars similar to the 550a. But recently, after I spent all the time and effort to get the handlebars populated with controls, my son and wife both commented - "aren't those bars too big for that bike?". Suddenly I was like
So I guess, I'm going to pull off the controls at some point and cut-down the bars about 2" per side. I guess I will also shorten the throttle tube at this time since pulling the grips back off is an uber-PITA.
As I am now getting down to the bottom of all the parts boxes and tubs, I am realizing how much is missing or in unusable condition. Simple things like gas tank cap - broken latch. I found I have two sets of coils but both sets have cracks in the coil casings and brake lines; which I have all the originals still in their spring carriers but I can't imagine reusing them. So the budget is slowing me down too. This past holiday, I decided to put the calculator to use and see how much of a dent KZombie has put in my "discretionary income". Surprisingly, I have spent about $1000 thus far That includes the massive initial purchase price of $10.00 So, I guess I can't complain except for the fact that about $200 of this has been on parts that were either wrong or so crappy I had to buy them again but still I reckon this is a reality of classic motorcycle restoration that probably everyone will face - eBay vendors that advertise something it isn't actually. Caveat Emptor; right?
Anyway, the budget aside, I am facing the reality of some pricey parts purchases; namely:
- [ Ignition System ]
- Wiring loom / Motogadget / Fuse block
- Hydraulic brake lines (4 of them on the KZ650-C3)
- [ Cool Gas Cap ]
These things combined are nearly as much as what the whole project has cost me so far and so will double the cost. Not that it matters to the project because I'm not restoring it as a flipper but to keep it as a fun scoot.
OK. Well, I best be off to the grind. Another day, another $0.68 after tax; right? So only about 3 years to go to pay for the remaining parts! :dry:
Well gents, I really do appreciate the positive responses. It's especially nice because I know each and every one of you have been where I am now. The process is, in itself, a reward for me. I guess the restoration process is something I enjoy almost as much as hopping on the saddle and twisting the right grip.
Progress has been hampered lately by crazy work schedule and even crazier weather. All the years I lived in Austin we were in constant water restrictions and drought and one of the first things I noticed when my darling better half and I started looking around Waco was how many folks were running sprinklers (verboten in Austin) and then after moving here late last year, how often it rains. It's been nearly daily or at least weekly. Kinda' feel like we moved to Old Blighty some days! :laugh:
No new pics to show unfortunately but I am trying to plug a couple hours a day into the project. Mainly all grunt work to clean and prep random frame pieces like peg mounts, muffler hangers but also a major change I decided upon on the holiday... I am going to paint the front fender (not new news) AND I decided that I'm going to also paint and use the rear fender too. I figured, KZombie had few pretty parts left on it but damnit they were on it, so, I have been prepping them both for paint along with their various pieces/struts/light mounts. The real change however is the paint color. I was going to only use the front fender and paint it tank/skin color - the blue - but now flipped on this and decided to paint them with the metallic, pearl black instead. My thinking is it will "help?" minimize their appearance being black but also it saves me from having to engineer some kinda rear tail light mount if I only went with the duck tail fairing. As I don't have access to my shop tools, fabricating in steel is somewhat limited at the moment and in truth, I always planned to restore KZombie to stock-form-ish.
Not too long ago (Blip ), I had decided to swap the handlebars of KZombie with the 1000CSR which had non-stock handlebars on it. So now it has the black bars similar to the 550a. But recently, after I spent all the time and effort to get the handlebars populated with controls, my son and wife both commented - "aren't those bars too big for that bike?". Suddenly I was like
So I guess, I'm going to pull off the controls at some point and cut-down the bars about 2" per side. I guess I will also shorten the throttle tube at this time since pulling the grips back off is an uber-PITA.
As I am now getting down to the bottom of all the parts boxes and tubs, I am realizing how much is missing or in unusable condition. Simple things like gas tank cap - broken latch. I found I have two sets of coils but both sets have cracks in the coil casings and brake lines; which I have all the originals still in their spring carriers but I can't imagine reusing them. So the budget is slowing me down too. This past holiday, I decided to put the calculator to use and see how much of a dent KZombie has put in my "discretionary income". Surprisingly, I have spent about $1000 thus far That includes the massive initial purchase price of $10.00 So, I guess I can't complain except for the fact that about $200 of this has been on parts that were either wrong or so crappy I had to buy them again but still I reckon this is a reality of classic motorcycle restoration that probably everyone will face - eBay vendors that advertise something it isn't actually. Caveat Emptor; right?
Anyway, the budget aside, I am facing the reality of some pricey parts purchases; namely:
- [ Ignition System ]
- Wiring loom / Motogadget / Fuse block
- Hydraulic brake lines (4 of them on the KZ650-C3)
- [ Cool Gas Cap ]
These things combined are nearly as much as what the whole project has cost me so far and so will double the cost. Not that it matters to the project because I'm not restoring it as a flipper but to keep it as a fun scoot.
OK. Well, I best be off to the grind. Another day, another $0.68 after tax; right? So only about 3 years to go to pay for the remaining parts! :dry:
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- SWest
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02 Jun 2016 07:01 #729642
by SWest
Replied by SWest on topic KZombie
Make sure the ignition system has two duel coils. The pic shows one duel and one single.
Steve
Steve
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02 Jun 2016 07:28 #729645
by wrenchmonkey
Replied by wrenchmonkey on topic KZombie
Hey Steve
Yeah, I noticed that too but in the description below it says something to effect "generic pictures used, the kit shipped will be as specified for that model/year bike..." or something like that. I've never heard of a 3 cylinder 650 so just assumed the generic pic was used.
Still, this would definitely not be cool to find out later. I've already amassed quite a parts collection of stuff that doesn't fit the 650
Yeah, I noticed that too but in the description below it says something to effect "generic pictures used, the kit shipped will be as specified for that model/year bike..." or something like that. I've never heard of a 3 cylinder 650 so just assumed the generic pic was used.
Still, this would definitely not be cool to find out later. I've already amassed quite a parts collection of stuff that doesn't fit the 650
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02 Jun 2016 07:43 #729648
by SWest
Replied by SWest on topic KZombie
It lists 750 also. 750 triple? I don't trust eBay sellers anymore. I'd ask before I spent the money.
Steve
Steve
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06 Jun 2016 09:19 #730283
by wrenchmonkey
Replied by wrenchmonkey on topic KZombie
Wow! Did we actually get a whole day without rain or skin-swamping humidity in the forecast? :ohmy:
Almost two weeks of fiddling with cleaning and grunt work waiting to paint and I woke up yesterday morning to see a bright, sunny day and no sign of wet. Of course I fired-up the java juicer and scampered out to the garage and set to work on getting some shiny on all those parts I had been cleaning. The front fender needed a wee dab of bondo on a subtle dent near the front but soon it was in primer along with a dozen other pieces:
This being my second round with the rattle can approach to automotive painting, I have to admit it's super easy and I can't complain about the results. It sprays out flawlessly, reacts the same as material you would mix yourself and spray from a normal paint gun and yet has the convenience of a throw away spray gun so there isn't an hour afterward to dismantle and clean the gun. Here's a couple of shots of the parts after the first stage was applied:
Finally, it was time to lay down the clear coat and things started to pop. I really do love this black pearl metallic. It's not this obvious when you are standing next to KZombie but when you get the light just right...
Well, it was only noon o'clock and I had managed to get the last of the black parts for this bike finished!
Last weekend I had got as far as installing and setting up the timing of the camshafts but didn't get the valve lash checking completed so while all the newly shiny parts were drying I broke-out the feeler gauges and set to checking what would need to be adjusted. Fortunately, I had purchased a box of shims for when I did the 550a a few months back. I think maybe their called a "set" of shims? I dunno but whatever, I figured I'd have enough to massage KZombie's valves into place. Then, I cracked open the FSM again (well, actually it was already opened up and laying on the frame from last week's camshaft installation). I really gotta say how unusual I found the process. Much ... easier? ... than the 550 is to check the valve gaps. The FSM for the 650 stipulates to spin the crank until "EX" arrow or "<-" (inlet arrow) aligns with case top and measure the corresponding valves, two at a time. Nice! I like when things are simple and straight forward. I had concerns about this being a lengthy process due to the cylinder head having been rebuilt and so was fully expecting to have to diddle with eight valves and their shims and probably have to do it several times because...well, the third time is the charm right? :lol:
Here's the readings on the valve gaps:
Wait? What? :huh:
So I double and then eventually triple checked my readings because nothing ever goes this smoothly with KZombie. These readings are all right, smack-dab, in the middle of the range the FSM stipulates for this engine.
Mind...
Blown... :side:
In truth, that one valve reading - number 3, inlet; was almost .006 thou too. It just had more pressure than I like to feel so I accepted it as being closer to .005 thou but otherwise, I'm super happy with the machine shop's efforts on this old head. I know many of the guys here prefer to fall on the higher side of the gap readings as it gives you more time between valve lash working even if it is at the cost of perhaps a little more engine noise. I reckon that the machinist who did this work on the valve stems musta' felt the same way.
It was now a whole 45 minutes later and something hadn't gone wrong in a whole three steps - priming, painting and mechanical adjustments. So I did something I rarely do. Stopped for a lunch break with the darling wife who's come to accept my weekend disappearing act in the garage. Nice. Sunny day in the shade on the back patio, sneaking tidbits of food to the puppy under the table and slurping on a cool beverage. Life is good!
After some relaxing I went back into the garage and decided I'd continue to button up the engine since things were going so smoothly. It took me nearly an hour to get the valve cover and those two emissions ports cleaned up but finally I got to install the cam buttons and slap down the new gasket from that kit I bought 10 years ago (I just noticed it was marketed through Canadian Tire Corp. ) even though I bought it on eBay.
Taking my 4th step forward, I plunked the new gasket down and immediately noticed I had the wrong gasket. This gasket "set" (yes, I know the general consensus here on anything sold as a "set") is listed for '77 thru '79 but obviously it didn't support the emissions porting. Sigh. I figured I may as well install the valve cover anyway just to keep the engine clean and later ordered another correct valve cover gasket which should be "here" by Friday.
Guess that means I almost made four steps forward without any backward:
Mmmmmm. Purdy!
This kinda' stuff makes me feel like a magpie or barracuda. I can't stop looking at all the shiny bits and smiling like an idiot.
I know it's only temporarily installed but the valve cover looks good and once again I cannot say enough positive things about the hardware kit that Jon had recommended to me a few weeks back. Those blingy allen head, stainless steel bolts are super trick.
Well, Things were going so well; gasket misstep aside, I started to wash-up or wipe-down more parts to be used. I had picked-up some parts from a CL ad in Austin the day before and the turn signal lenses were in really pristine shape so I opted to go with them even while I have new ones already wizzing their way across the globe to me in the mail. I figured if I can use original parts made for this bike then I would rather. So here's the dwindling collection of bits needed to still go on:
Yes, the paint or rather clear coat had dried on most everything so those are the the shiny black bits there.
Here's a close-up of the side cover badging:
Now I just have to figure out how I'm gunna get my fat fingers to lay white gold paint into those eeensy-weeny recesses. I'm thinking of trying to mask them off and slit the tape with a fresh razor blade. We'll see...
Finally, I got to putting more of Humpty together again as the day was winding down:
Dayum! :woohoo:
Feels like I could almost hop on this machine and go for a spin!
I still have all the electrical work to do. The tank and side panels need massaging and paint. The ignition system has to be done and then I reckon it'll finally be time to test the beast's desire to rise from the dead.
I ordered a stock set of coils, wires and caps last night along with the correct valve cover gasket. Both should be here by Friday. This week I guess, I'll tackle the fuel tank cleaning. Makes sense to clean it and simultaneously test it for not leaking as I will be doing the electrolysis method to cleaning. I'll make sure to take pics of this so y'all can see if it's worthy or not.
Eventually, I want to replace the entire ignition system with an electronic system as I mentioned above. Also, I've been thinking of buying a brand new exhaust for a bit more bling. The CL ad I bought this weekend was actually for a complete, stock, original '77 KZ650-B exhaust system and I picked it up because my exhaust, while actually in probably 80% shape, chrome-wise was suffering from internal deterioration. What I thought were mud dauber clumps bouncing around inside the muffler cans turns out to not be mud but metal :dry: I discovered this last week after giving the whole exhaust a long and thorough bath and cleaning. They look good enough to use but I fear that metal clunking internally is not a sign of good things to come for it. So I bought that CL system with higher hopes and while it is solid and complete (as was the seller's bone stock, and really great condition '77 650!) the chrome on them is... letting them down. Thus, they're going on for the trials and testing so as to keep everything stock and so I can ask more questions here about whatever may come up but at some point, this exhaust along with the ignition will be replaced.
Just gotta keep taking those baby steps. One thing at a time...
Have a great week boys!
Almost two weeks of fiddling with cleaning and grunt work waiting to paint and I woke up yesterday morning to see a bright, sunny day and no sign of wet. Of course I fired-up the java juicer and scampered out to the garage and set to work on getting some shiny on all those parts I had been cleaning. The front fender needed a wee dab of bondo on a subtle dent near the front but soon it was in primer along with a dozen other pieces:
This being my second round with the rattle can approach to automotive painting, I have to admit it's super easy and I can't complain about the results. It sprays out flawlessly, reacts the same as material you would mix yourself and spray from a normal paint gun and yet has the convenience of a throw away spray gun so there isn't an hour afterward to dismantle and clean the gun. Here's a couple of shots of the parts after the first stage was applied:
Finally, it was time to lay down the clear coat and things started to pop. I really do love this black pearl metallic. It's not this obvious when you are standing next to KZombie but when you get the light just right...
Well, it was only noon o'clock and I had managed to get the last of the black parts for this bike finished!
Last weekend I had got as far as installing and setting up the timing of the camshafts but didn't get the valve lash checking completed so while all the newly shiny parts were drying I broke-out the feeler gauges and set to checking what would need to be adjusted. Fortunately, I had purchased a box of shims for when I did the 550a a few months back. I think maybe their called a "set" of shims? I dunno but whatever, I figured I'd have enough to massage KZombie's valves into place. Then, I cracked open the FSM again (well, actually it was already opened up and laying on the frame from last week's camshaft installation). I really gotta say how unusual I found the process. Much ... easier? ... than the 550 is to check the valve gaps. The FSM for the 650 stipulates to spin the crank until "EX" arrow or "<-" (inlet arrow) aligns with case top and measure the corresponding valves, two at a time. Nice! I like when things are simple and straight forward. I had concerns about this being a lengthy process due to the cylinder head having been rebuilt and so was fully expecting to have to diddle with eight valves and their shims and probably have to do it several times because...well, the third time is the charm right? :lol:
Here's the readings on the valve gaps:
Wait? What? :huh:
So I double and then eventually triple checked my readings because nothing ever goes this smoothly with KZombie. These readings are all right, smack-dab, in the middle of the range the FSM stipulates for this engine.
Mind...
Blown... :side:
In truth, that one valve reading - number 3, inlet; was almost .006 thou too. It just had more pressure than I like to feel so I accepted it as being closer to .005 thou but otherwise, I'm super happy with the machine shop's efforts on this old head. I know many of the guys here prefer to fall on the higher side of the gap readings as it gives you more time between valve lash working even if it is at the cost of perhaps a little more engine noise. I reckon that the machinist who did this work on the valve stems musta' felt the same way.
It was now a whole 45 minutes later and something hadn't gone wrong in a whole three steps - priming, painting and mechanical adjustments. So I did something I rarely do. Stopped for a lunch break with the darling wife who's come to accept my weekend disappearing act in the garage. Nice. Sunny day in the shade on the back patio, sneaking tidbits of food to the puppy under the table and slurping on a cool beverage. Life is good!
After some relaxing I went back into the garage and decided I'd continue to button up the engine since things were going so smoothly. It took me nearly an hour to get the valve cover and those two emissions ports cleaned up but finally I got to install the cam buttons and slap down the new gasket from that kit I bought 10 years ago (I just noticed it was marketed through Canadian Tire Corp. ) even though I bought it on eBay.
Taking my 4th step forward, I plunked the new gasket down and immediately noticed I had the wrong gasket. This gasket "set" (yes, I know the general consensus here on anything sold as a "set") is listed for '77 thru '79 but obviously it didn't support the emissions porting. Sigh. I figured I may as well install the valve cover anyway just to keep the engine clean and later ordered another correct valve cover gasket which should be "here" by Friday.
Guess that means I almost made four steps forward without any backward:
Mmmmmm. Purdy!
This kinda' stuff makes me feel like a magpie or barracuda. I can't stop looking at all the shiny bits and smiling like an idiot.
I know it's only temporarily installed but the valve cover looks good and once again I cannot say enough positive things about the hardware kit that Jon had recommended to me a few weeks back. Those blingy allen head, stainless steel bolts are super trick.
Well, Things were going so well; gasket misstep aside, I started to wash-up or wipe-down more parts to be used. I had picked-up some parts from a CL ad in Austin the day before and the turn signal lenses were in really pristine shape so I opted to go with them even while I have new ones already wizzing their way across the globe to me in the mail. I figured if I can use original parts made for this bike then I would rather. So here's the dwindling collection of bits needed to still go on:
Yes, the paint or rather clear coat had dried on most everything so those are the the shiny black bits there.
Here's a close-up of the side cover badging:
Now I just have to figure out how I'm gunna get my fat fingers to lay white gold paint into those eeensy-weeny recesses. I'm thinking of trying to mask them off and slit the tape with a fresh razor blade. We'll see...
Finally, I got to putting more of Humpty together again as the day was winding down:
Dayum! :woohoo:
Feels like I could almost hop on this machine and go for a spin!
I still have all the electrical work to do. The tank and side panels need massaging and paint. The ignition system has to be done and then I reckon it'll finally be time to test the beast's desire to rise from the dead.
I ordered a stock set of coils, wires and caps last night along with the correct valve cover gasket. Both should be here by Friday. This week I guess, I'll tackle the fuel tank cleaning. Makes sense to clean it and simultaneously test it for not leaking as I will be doing the electrolysis method to cleaning. I'll make sure to take pics of this so y'all can see if it's worthy or not.
Eventually, I want to replace the entire ignition system with an electronic system as I mentioned above. Also, I've been thinking of buying a brand new exhaust for a bit more bling. The CL ad I bought this weekend was actually for a complete, stock, original '77 KZ650-B exhaust system and I picked it up because my exhaust, while actually in probably 80% shape, chrome-wise was suffering from internal deterioration. What I thought were mud dauber clumps bouncing around inside the muffler cans turns out to not be mud but metal :dry: I discovered this last week after giving the whole exhaust a long and thorough bath and cleaning. They look good enough to use but I fear that metal clunking internally is not a sign of good things to come for it. So I bought that CL system with higher hopes and while it is solid and complete (as was the seller's bone stock, and really great condition '77 650!) the chrome on them is... letting them down. Thus, they're going on for the trials and testing so as to keep everything stock and so I can ask more questions here about whatever may come up but at some point, this exhaust along with the ignition will be replaced.
Just gotta keep taking those baby steps. One thing at a time...
Have a great week boys!
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06 Jun 2016 21:24 #730364
by rrsmsw9999
1980 KZ 1000E2
Crashed 6/2016
1980 KZ550A
Sold 3/2016
Replied by rrsmsw9999 on topic KZombie
Looking good Wrench! Your patience and persistence will pay off. I always get in a rush and then do something else. R
1980 KZ 1000E2
Crashed 6/2016
1980 KZ550A
Sold 3/2016
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06 Jun 2016 23:17 #730371
by wrenchmonkey
Replied by wrenchmonkey on topic KZombie
Thanks R!
Yeah. I'm trying really hard not to rush, this time.
There's just so many processes going on at the same time and some of them are interdependent; getting the timing right has been my stumbling block. Like the paint yesterday. That was holding up so many other steps I coulda' been doing. I did make a punch list though of things to go back and recheck because when I did "it" the first time I wasn't certain "it" wouldn't have to come back off for some other thing. Like double check all braking fasteners! :ohmy: or clutch cover.
I discovered tonight that not all KZ650s share the same speedo cable. I picked up a pair of original speedo/tach cables on eBay a while ago. They were listed for a '81 650 SR but it was a pair and great price so I took the chance... Hey the Tach cable fits at least.
Yeah. I'm trying really hard not to rush, this time.
There's just so many processes going on at the same time and some of them are interdependent; getting the timing right has been my stumbling block. Like the paint yesterday. That was holding up so many other steps I coulda' been doing. I did make a punch list though of things to go back and recheck because when I did "it" the first time I wasn't certain "it" wouldn't have to come back off for some other thing. Like double check all braking fasteners! :ohmy: or clutch cover.
I discovered tonight that not all KZ650s share the same speedo cable. I picked up a pair of original speedo/tach cables on eBay a while ago. They were listed for a '81 650 SR but it was a pair and great price so I took the chance... Hey the Tach cable fits at least.
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- 650mod
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07 Jun 2016 07:10 #730407
by 650mod
78 kz 650 custom
Wiseco 720cc big bore
Dynajet stage 3 carb kit with pods
2002 Kawasaki Z750 exhaust
2001 Buell lightning front end
1999 Ninja 600 swingarm with 1999 Ninja 900 rear rim
converted to monoshock rear
Too many goodies to list fully
Replied by 650mod on topic KZombie
So close! One step at a time and she's all coming together! Just wait til you get to hit the starter and hear her purr
Devin
Devin
78 kz 650 custom
Wiseco 720cc big bore
Dynajet stage 3 carb kit with pods
2002 Kawasaki Z750 exhaust
2001 Buell lightning front end
1999 Ninja 600 swingarm with 1999 Ninja 900 rear rim
converted to monoshock rear
Too many goodies to list fully
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07 Jun 2016 08:01 #730415
by wrenchmonkey
Replied by wrenchmonkey on topic KZombie
Hey Devin!
Yeah, I'm hoping to actually fire up the engine next weekend, assuming I get enough of it wired-in and the absent ignition parts make it to my door on time
It is at the exciting stage though. So close or so it seems. Trying to remain calm and not forget something at this point.
I'll be picking up the stuff today that I need to run the electrolysis process on the fuel tank and with luck, I may even get the skins into primer and paint over the weekend too. More optimism. :laugh:
Yeah, I'm hoping to actually fire up the engine next weekend, assuming I get enough of it wired-in and the absent ignition parts make it to my door on time
It is at the exciting stage though. So close or so it seems. Trying to remain calm and not forget something at this point.
I'll be picking up the stuff today that I need to run the electrolysis process on the fuel tank and with luck, I may even get the skins into primer and paint over the weekend too. More optimism. :laugh:
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- Tirefire Pat
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- (2) 1980 kz1000 b-ltd,,h2-750 triple,sold.kz 550 ,
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07 Jun 2016 14:39 #730459
by Tirefire Pat
Replied by Tirefire Pat on topic KZombie
Lookin great wrench! Pat
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07 Jun 2016 18:56 #730476
by wrenchmonkey
Replied by wrenchmonkey on topic KZombie
Hey Pat
Thank you. Getting more stoked by the hour lately. Is it bad when your at work all day yet only thinking of getting home to wrench on your bike? :laugh:
Trying out the electrolysis method on the tank as we speak. Bloody messy task! I had to move the whole setup outside to the driveway when i realized the bubbles were actually oxygen & ... hydrogen! Yikes! :ohmy:
So far, i'm not impressed. Too much like laundry and chemistry mixed. I may draw back and punt on this one tomorrow and try alternate approach by sinking the whole tank in a a tub & run the process on it from outside instead of anode inside.
A few more hours will decide...
Thank you. Getting more stoked by the hour lately. Is it bad when your at work all day yet only thinking of getting home to wrench on your bike? :laugh:
Trying out the electrolysis method on the tank as we speak. Bloody messy task! I had to move the whole setup outside to the driveway when i realized the bubbles were actually oxygen & ... hydrogen! Yikes! :ohmy:
So far, i'm not impressed. Too much like laundry and chemistry mixed. I may draw back and punt on this one tomorrow and try alternate approach by sinking the whole tank in a a tub & run the process on it from outside instead of anode inside.
A few more hours will decide...
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15 Jun 2016 07:19 #731472
by wrenchmonkey
Replied by wrenchmonkey on topic KZombie
Ship in a bottle. Remember them?
I built one as a young lad with my Dad. He was into sailing, seafaring and such but also mechanical engineering. On any given spare weekend he and I would build models of a wankel rotary engine or a working, see-through V8 engine or of popular tall ships,
Ahhh. Those were good years.
I didn't realize it then but this was the beginning of my fascination with cars and motorcycles. In later years our model building on the dining room table would shift out to the workbench in the garage on the full scale versions. Nothing was off limits. If it could fit into the garage then it was fair game for being wrenched on.
It occurred to me just recently, that KZombie's rise from the grave has only been possible due to those formative years with my Dad, building and investigating. Tearing apart something to see why it failed and then figuring out how to fix it. Often he would let me do it even when it resulted in failure. He must have been clenching his teeth, as I fumbled my way through some repair of an electric motor or rebuild of a carburetor but he knew it was needed. I had to fall down to learn in the long run.
This past week, I think I realized something: All those hours of him nervously watching this young boy at the dining room table with model glue and at the workbench with wrench or tool paid off as I'm sure my old man was praying for. Thanks Dad! You really are my best friend!
Happy Father's Day to all of our KZr Dads and sons of Dads who shared their love of all things mechanical with them!
Okay, now I gotta start a new entry for what I was going to relate - work over the past week on KZombie.
I started the week off with electrolysis investigation for rust removal from the fuel tank which as many may recall, I thought was metallic brown from memory but come to find out it was from so much rusting that my fading memory of 10 years ago made me remember it as brown. :laugh:
Anyway. Here's my first setup:
Yup. Just like all those EweToob videos show... Except there's a ton more work involved to get to this point not shown by all those young guns with gas tanks wired-up in their backyards and that is getting the electrode that goes inside the tank to be suspended perfectly so as not to touch the tank.
Easy! Right?
Um. No!
A royal freakin' pain in the wrist is what it is. Seriously! I spent probably close to an hour of diddling with this, trying that, reshaping the sacrificial anode (electrode, wire, whatever) to fit inside and then hang there isolated from the tank. Here's a close-up of my secret to success:
Yes. That's right boys and girls. I cut up a perfectly good throttle grip to make a rubber insulator that fit snugly inside the fuel filler neck and then ran the anode wire through it AND a plastic rattle can lid with some mods to fit over KZombie's tank neck.
Cool! Right?
Um. No!
DO NOT EVER TRY THIS METHOD AT HOME KIDS!
Do you see anything obviously wrong with this approach? I didn't. I was pretty damned pleased with myself when I finally got to hook up the battery charger and walk away, sweat pouring down my forehead and forearms from the extreme humidity we've been suffering through here in central Texas.
So this approach was a complete failure because I only thought about the electro-mechanical issues of suspending an electrode inside a cage that it couldn't touch and didn't put any thought toward the chemical reaction issues that are taking place...
About an hour later.
Me, all pleased with myself. Electrol-er-oh-sizing the heck outta my tank down in the garage. I was combing my hair after a cool shower and getting ready to take my pooch for her evening walk. Staring into the mirror, comb in hand, I hear "Thump..." from downstairs. "Stupid dog." I think to myself. - You know when your dog behaves like a well, I guess, dog. She musta lost her balance and thumped her foot or head or something.
So I continue combing, trying to make sense outta the mop on my head when I hear it again "Thump..... thump... thump...." :huh:
I step down the stairs and peek under the ceiling at my dog to see she is sleeping quietly in her doggy bed by the fireplace and then I hear it again as I'm watching the sleeping dog lie - "Thump" :blink: WTF?
So, I go out to the garage, following the sound that is getting louder.
There across the garage, on my workbench is my tank, rusty colored, saline solution bubbling all over the dang place, running down the tank and across the workbench, down onto the floor! :ohmy:
Yeah, that happened. Stupid is, as stupid does. :blush:
I quickly ran to the battery charger's plug and pulled it from the wall outlet. Whew!
In case any of you, like me, sat in the very back row of chemistry classes, paying more attention to the cute blonde girl outside of the window instead of the chalkboard where the teacher was explaining the finer details of what happens when you pass electrical current through a solution comprised of water which ultimately separates the H2 from the Oh and releases all that hydrogen from it's oxygen...
Yes. I was trying to, without thinking about it, make a hydrogen gas trap between my insulator-throttle-grip and the rattle can lid. Hydrogen. Hmmm. Isn't like hydrogen ... EXPLOSIVE?
Quick! Open the garage door and grab the pooch and head out the front door for the evening doggy walk before the wife gets home and notices anything odd! :whistle:
Take two:
So, more freakin' diddling hours later. I managed to get that sacrificial anode wire suspended inside the tank without the throttle grip-seal-gas-trap. Breathing a sigh of relief, I let'er rip for about 3 hours while nervously watching the television with darling wife. About 11pm I stepped outside and hadda a peak. The sodium carbonate solution still managed to bubble all over the place but the process was working:
That's a video capture of the tank's internals.
It was working! Yay for electrons doing what electrons like to do! :woohoo:
Only problem is, the reaction was limited to the area immediately around my hand-fashioned electrode, which was simply some bailing wire twisted up and bent into a single length that reached from filler neck backward to about 3" short of the back/inside of the tank.
The results were kinda' disappointing considering all the hoops I hadda jump through to get to that point. All the time spent figuring out how to hand a wire inside the tank without touching the tank and the running around town to find "sodium carbonate" (NOT sodium bicarbonate! - which it turns out was discussed in another chemistry class I musta' slept through).
So the concept works but my implementation was underwhelming at best.
Take three:
So another day. Another attempt... This time I made a crazy, freakin' difficult to imagine, multi-pronged, electrode that required fitting and fitting and testing and trials. Basically, a four pronged probe with ends that reached out to all corners of the tank, counter balancing each other so as not to touch that tank internally for fear of shorting out - "ZZZZZZZzzzzzzttttttT!" and possibly frying my ancient, dumb battery charger.
I twisted-up lengths of bailing wire again and finally twisted the four probes into one neat but ugly knot at the filler neck where I connected the charger's positive lead to.
And it worked!
Worked great even! :woohoo:
I left it to run for almost a whole day out in the driveway as I wrenched on KZombie in the garage. Randomly checking on it to see the meter of the charger was acting normal and not showing signs of dead.
It ran this way from 9am until 9pm and when I finally shut it down and went to extract my hydra-headed anode, all I pulled out of the tank was rusted bits of wire, no longer than a couple of inches. The anode had essentially disintegrated into nothing. The bailing wire it seems was just not sufficient for that many hours of chemical reaction. I probably could have stopped it around 4pm in the afternoon given what I removed from the tank at 9pm. :dry:
Take four:
Oh yeah! That's what I'm talking 'bout!
Look at that!
Doktor Von Frankenstein would be proud!
I decided to forego the problems with suspending electrode of flimsy wire inside the tank and just submerge the whole dang thang! :evil:
I soldered the cathod connections directly to the bare steel of the tank.
I created a maze of heavy iron and steel anodes that surrounded the tank, inside, underside, side, overside.
These anodes were going bombard the crap outta of the tank from every angle and with two cathode connections soldered to the tank at both ends. Well, A freakin' superhighway of electron flow was about to commence!
An hour or so later
I actually made a video of this in process and you can see the bubbling, watery, electronee, action in all it's goodness. When I plugged in the dumb charger, instantly a cloud formed between the two big 10" saw blades and the sides of the tank! Awesome! :woohoo:
The worn-out, old, files I used also started their efforts and bubbles started forming throughout the solution.
Turns out the bubbles were mostly because I used "Arm and Hammer, Washing Soda" instead of straight-up sodium carbonate. So I got some sudsy washing bubbles but as the wife pointed out later - "this is the best your ratty old bike has ever smelled!" :laugh:
A few hours later:
Super! More bubbles! More rusty goo! Awesome!
In short (no pun intended) this setup worked so dang good. I was impressed. So where's the results picture?
Yeah. About that...
More chemistry class we all shoulda' been paying attention in.
Sodium...
Sodium (anything - carbonate (good) - bicarbonate (not good)) and raw metal. Well, anyone that lives in the north east knows what happens when salt meets with your automotive pursuits - Rust!
Wha?
But isn't that exactly what this whole experiment was supposed to remove?
Yup.
Problem is, the second, that raw, clean, metal tank hits the air outta the solution, it begins flash rusting all over again. :ohmy:
Additionally, my tank was still sorta' painted when I dunked it into the electrocution tub from hell.
When I pulled it out several hours later (8 hours total time BTW) all the paint still on the tank had begun to bubble-up. You see, even the teeny rusty pimples under the paint and primer were no match for my pyscho electron bath. However, all the paint lifted off too. I used a flat razor and simply scraped across the whole of the tank and big flakes of paint fell off like they wanted to get away from that tank.
The rusting began instantly too. I hadda wash-off the sodium solution and fill the tank with water from the garden hose just to rinse it all out from inside and in less than 30 minutes my tank looked almost as bad as when I put it into the Frankenstein tank:
Janet! Dr. Scott! Janet! Brad! Rocky! Uh! :laugh: :laugh: When Eddy said he didn't like his Teddy, you knew he was a no good kid.. :laugh: :laugh:
So. I ultimately had to hit the whole tank with a wire wheel on a drill and zap all the flashing rust from the surfaces. This worked out to be a good thing anyway because all the heavily pock-marked skin held rust in the deeper crevices and that hadda go!
Within an hour, I had sanded, wire-wheeled and primed with etching primer the whole tank:
I dunno if you can see it at this resolution but look closely at the tank skin near the Kawasaki badge mount and you can see the pock marks left from rust removal ala Frankenfurter :silly:
Here's the tank afterward:
Pretty! NOT! Those rusty saw blades are THICK in rust too. The oxide layered up upon itself to nearly 3/8" thick. Crazy!
So that's electrolysis ladies and gentlemen!
I think it's cool. Certainly fun experiment. Probably really useful for cleaning up old tools, hammers or whatever. Smaller objects that are easy to tank-dunk.
I think it's completely a waste of time for motorcycle tank cleaning. Waaaay too many hours sunk into this now and ultimately, I had to resort to mechanical rust removal - flap discs and wire wheels, just to counter the flash rusting from sodium exposure. Guess what the inside of the tank looks like now?
I dunno. I was too afraid to look. I rinsed it out and let the tank dry off. Then masked it up and started flap disc'in and wire wheel'in so I could get it into etching primer coat quickly. I thought about spraying oil inside the tank but that's counter productive to priming, painting or even body working.
Thus, I will ultimately have to fill the tank with some metal etch cleaner and probably sealer anyway.
Fun!
Oh and while all this chemical reactionary schtuff was going on, I did manage to further the situation with KZombie but this will have to wait til later. More pics. More progress. I'm gettin' stoked now good people!
I built one as a young lad with my Dad. He was into sailing, seafaring and such but also mechanical engineering. On any given spare weekend he and I would build models of a wankel rotary engine or a working, see-through V8 engine or of popular tall ships,
Ahhh. Those were good years.
I didn't realize it then but this was the beginning of my fascination with cars and motorcycles. In later years our model building on the dining room table would shift out to the workbench in the garage on the full scale versions. Nothing was off limits. If it could fit into the garage then it was fair game for being wrenched on.
It occurred to me just recently, that KZombie's rise from the grave has only been possible due to those formative years with my Dad, building and investigating. Tearing apart something to see why it failed and then figuring out how to fix it. Often he would let me do it even when it resulted in failure. He must have been clenching his teeth, as I fumbled my way through some repair of an electric motor or rebuild of a carburetor but he knew it was needed. I had to fall down to learn in the long run.
This past week, I think I realized something: All those hours of him nervously watching this young boy at the dining room table with model glue and at the workbench with wrench or tool paid off as I'm sure my old man was praying for. Thanks Dad! You really are my best friend!
Happy Father's Day to all of our KZr Dads and sons of Dads who shared their love of all things mechanical with them!
Okay, now I gotta start a new entry for what I was going to relate - work over the past week on KZombie.
I started the week off with electrolysis investigation for rust removal from the fuel tank which as many may recall, I thought was metallic brown from memory but come to find out it was from so much rusting that my fading memory of 10 years ago made me remember it as brown. :laugh:
Anyway. Here's my first setup:
Yup. Just like all those EweToob videos show... Except there's a ton more work involved to get to this point not shown by all those young guns with gas tanks wired-up in their backyards and that is getting the electrode that goes inside the tank to be suspended perfectly so as not to touch the tank.
Easy! Right?
Um. No!
A royal freakin' pain in the wrist is what it is. Seriously! I spent probably close to an hour of diddling with this, trying that, reshaping the sacrificial anode (electrode, wire, whatever) to fit inside and then hang there isolated from the tank. Here's a close-up of my secret to success:
Yes. That's right boys and girls. I cut up a perfectly good throttle grip to make a rubber insulator that fit snugly inside the fuel filler neck and then ran the anode wire through it AND a plastic rattle can lid with some mods to fit over KZombie's tank neck.
Cool! Right?
Um. No!
DO NOT EVER TRY THIS METHOD AT HOME KIDS!
Do you see anything obviously wrong with this approach? I didn't. I was pretty damned pleased with myself when I finally got to hook up the battery charger and walk away, sweat pouring down my forehead and forearms from the extreme humidity we've been suffering through here in central Texas.
So this approach was a complete failure because I only thought about the electro-mechanical issues of suspending an electrode inside a cage that it couldn't touch and didn't put any thought toward the chemical reaction issues that are taking place...
About an hour later.
Me, all pleased with myself. Electrol-er-oh-sizing the heck outta my tank down in the garage. I was combing my hair after a cool shower and getting ready to take my pooch for her evening walk. Staring into the mirror, comb in hand, I hear "Thump..." from downstairs. "Stupid dog." I think to myself. - You know when your dog behaves like a well, I guess, dog. She musta lost her balance and thumped her foot or head or something.
So I continue combing, trying to make sense outta the mop on my head when I hear it again "Thump..... thump... thump...." :huh:
I step down the stairs and peek under the ceiling at my dog to see she is sleeping quietly in her doggy bed by the fireplace and then I hear it again as I'm watching the sleeping dog lie - "Thump" :blink: WTF?
So, I go out to the garage, following the sound that is getting louder.
There across the garage, on my workbench is my tank, rusty colored, saline solution bubbling all over the dang place, running down the tank and across the workbench, down onto the floor! :ohmy:
Yeah, that happened. Stupid is, as stupid does. :blush:
I quickly ran to the battery charger's plug and pulled it from the wall outlet. Whew!
In case any of you, like me, sat in the very back row of chemistry classes, paying more attention to the cute blonde girl outside of the window instead of the chalkboard where the teacher was explaining the finer details of what happens when you pass electrical current through a solution comprised of water which ultimately separates the H2 from the Oh and releases all that hydrogen from it's oxygen...
Yes. I was trying to, without thinking about it, make a hydrogen gas trap between my insulator-throttle-grip and the rattle can lid. Hydrogen. Hmmm. Isn't like hydrogen ... EXPLOSIVE?
Quick! Open the garage door and grab the pooch and head out the front door for the evening doggy walk before the wife gets home and notices anything odd! :whistle:
Take two:
So, more freakin' diddling hours later. I managed to get that sacrificial anode wire suspended inside the tank without the throttle grip-seal-gas-trap. Breathing a sigh of relief, I let'er rip for about 3 hours while nervously watching the television with darling wife. About 11pm I stepped outside and hadda a peak. The sodium carbonate solution still managed to bubble all over the place but the process was working:
That's a video capture of the tank's internals.
It was working! Yay for electrons doing what electrons like to do! :woohoo:
Only problem is, the reaction was limited to the area immediately around my hand-fashioned electrode, which was simply some bailing wire twisted up and bent into a single length that reached from filler neck backward to about 3" short of the back/inside of the tank.
The results were kinda' disappointing considering all the hoops I hadda jump through to get to that point. All the time spent figuring out how to hand a wire inside the tank without touching the tank and the running around town to find "sodium carbonate" (NOT sodium bicarbonate! - which it turns out was discussed in another chemistry class I musta' slept through).
So the concept works but my implementation was underwhelming at best.
Take three:
So another day. Another attempt... This time I made a crazy, freakin' difficult to imagine, multi-pronged, electrode that required fitting and fitting and testing and trials. Basically, a four pronged probe with ends that reached out to all corners of the tank, counter balancing each other so as not to touch that tank internally for fear of shorting out - "ZZZZZZZzzzzzzttttttT!" and possibly frying my ancient, dumb battery charger.
I twisted-up lengths of bailing wire again and finally twisted the four probes into one neat but ugly knot at the filler neck where I connected the charger's positive lead to.
And it worked!
Worked great even! :woohoo:
I left it to run for almost a whole day out in the driveway as I wrenched on KZombie in the garage. Randomly checking on it to see the meter of the charger was acting normal and not showing signs of dead.
It ran this way from 9am until 9pm and when I finally shut it down and went to extract my hydra-headed anode, all I pulled out of the tank was rusted bits of wire, no longer than a couple of inches. The anode had essentially disintegrated into nothing. The bailing wire it seems was just not sufficient for that many hours of chemical reaction. I probably could have stopped it around 4pm in the afternoon given what I removed from the tank at 9pm. :dry:
Take four:
Oh yeah! That's what I'm talking 'bout!
Look at that!
Doktor Von Frankenstein would be proud!
I decided to forego the problems with suspending electrode of flimsy wire inside the tank and just submerge the whole dang thang! :evil:
I soldered the cathod connections directly to the bare steel of the tank.
I created a maze of heavy iron and steel anodes that surrounded the tank, inside, underside, side, overside.
These anodes were going bombard the crap outta of the tank from every angle and with two cathode connections soldered to the tank at both ends. Well, A freakin' superhighway of electron flow was about to commence!
An hour or so later
I actually made a video of this in process and you can see the bubbling, watery, electronee, action in all it's goodness. When I plugged in the dumb charger, instantly a cloud formed between the two big 10" saw blades and the sides of the tank! Awesome! :woohoo:
The worn-out, old, files I used also started their efforts and bubbles started forming throughout the solution.
Turns out the bubbles were mostly because I used "Arm and Hammer, Washing Soda" instead of straight-up sodium carbonate. So I got some sudsy washing bubbles but as the wife pointed out later - "this is the best your ratty old bike has ever smelled!" :laugh:
A few hours later:
Super! More bubbles! More rusty goo! Awesome!
In short (no pun intended) this setup worked so dang good. I was impressed. So where's the results picture?
Yeah. About that...
More chemistry class we all shoulda' been paying attention in.
Sodium...
Sodium (anything - carbonate (good) - bicarbonate (not good)) and raw metal. Well, anyone that lives in the north east knows what happens when salt meets with your automotive pursuits - Rust!
Wha?
But isn't that exactly what this whole experiment was supposed to remove?
Yup.
Problem is, the second, that raw, clean, metal tank hits the air outta the solution, it begins flash rusting all over again. :ohmy:
Additionally, my tank was still sorta' painted when I dunked it into the electrocution tub from hell.
When I pulled it out several hours later (8 hours total time BTW) all the paint still on the tank had begun to bubble-up. You see, even the teeny rusty pimples under the paint and primer were no match for my pyscho electron bath. However, all the paint lifted off too. I used a flat razor and simply scraped across the whole of the tank and big flakes of paint fell off like they wanted to get away from that tank.
The rusting began instantly too. I hadda wash-off the sodium solution and fill the tank with water from the garden hose just to rinse it all out from inside and in less than 30 minutes my tank looked almost as bad as when I put it into the Frankenstein tank:
Janet! Dr. Scott! Janet! Brad! Rocky! Uh! :laugh: :laugh: When Eddy said he didn't like his Teddy, you knew he was a no good kid.. :laugh: :laugh:
So. I ultimately had to hit the whole tank with a wire wheel on a drill and zap all the flashing rust from the surfaces. This worked out to be a good thing anyway because all the heavily pock-marked skin held rust in the deeper crevices and that hadda go!
Within an hour, I had sanded, wire-wheeled and primed with etching primer the whole tank:
I dunno if you can see it at this resolution but look closely at the tank skin near the Kawasaki badge mount and you can see the pock marks left from rust removal ala Frankenfurter :silly:
Here's the tank afterward:
Pretty! NOT! Those rusty saw blades are THICK in rust too. The oxide layered up upon itself to nearly 3/8" thick. Crazy!
So that's electrolysis ladies and gentlemen!
I think it's cool. Certainly fun experiment. Probably really useful for cleaning up old tools, hammers or whatever. Smaller objects that are easy to tank-dunk.
I think it's completely a waste of time for motorcycle tank cleaning. Waaaay too many hours sunk into this now and ultimately, I had to resort to mechanical rust removal - flap discs and wire wheels, just to counter the flash rusting from sodium exposure. Guess what the inside of the tank looks like now?
I dunno. I was too afraid to look. I rinsed it out and let the tank dry off. Then masked it up and started flap disc'in and wire wheel'in so I could get it into etching primer coat quickly. I thought about spraying oil inside the tank but that's counter productive to priming, painting or even body working.
Thus, I will ultimately have to fill the tank with some metal etch cleaner and probably sealer anyway.
Fun!
Oh and while all this chemical reactionary schtuff was going on, I did manage to further the situation with KZombie but this will have to wait til later. More pics. More progress. I'm gettin' stoked now good people!
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