Carbon Fiber Bodywork

Ive been watching this thread with great interest, I think this so cool. And even the ones you said didnt turn out look good to me.
Really good compared to what I found on ebay today.
cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KZ900-Carbon-Fib...&hash=item5195953ddb
Im sure yours will look great Keep it up

Holy crap, I've never seen that before! After looking at the pic though, I had a few questions so I emailed the seller:

I understand these pieces are "seconds", do you have "first" quality run pieces as well? Are the parts full carbon, or just carbon covered ABS parts? If they are full carbon, how many layers, what weight fabric, and what type resin was used? What process was used for lamination and have any steps yet been taken to for UV protection of the resin IF epoxy was used? Thank you for your time,
Adam

They do not look like quality parts. From the pic, what I consider unacceptable in my pieces looks quite a bit better that what that guy is trying to pass off. Also, you can see that in the tail piece the bottom of the tool tray has the ribs on the inside. The quality of the piece suggests that the maker wouldn't take the time to cut a stock tail apart and mold the tray bottom seperately from the stock piece. Also the thickness of the tail suggests an extremely thick laminate, with one of 3 reasons: 1- carbon fiber covered abs. 2- it's mostly cheap fiberglass with just one or two layers of carbon. 3- It's solid carbon but he did such a crappy job that he has to practically give it away.
Thanks for the link moneypit. I'll post the sellers response here, and I'll keep an eye on that auction. I might even bid on it if it stays cheap, just to see what the guy did :blink:

Sellers response:

"No Firsts at this time. Carbon, FG layup with baltek mat filler. Two/three layers (dependant on stress area) CF-baltek-fg layup in two peice mold with a plug for the tool box. Two part Max Clear HP Epoxy Resin (UV resistant) With UV protectant clear coat with flexitive."

Revision to answer:

"No Baltek mat used in this layup. Layup was CFx2-FGx2-CFx2"

My follow up question:

"Thanks for your answer. I have three additional questions though. Was the fiber orientation of the fabric alternated from the 0/90 deg bias to the +45/-45 deg bias? What weight fabric was used for the carbon and fiberglass? Lastly, 6 layers of fabric at nominal finished thickness of .011" per layer (standard 5.7 oz/cu yd carbon) giving you a nominal finished thickness of .066" (assuming similar weight fiberglass fabric). The thickness of the stock part is .165" thick at the mounting points, how do you account for the extra thickness to insure that the stock rubber mounting grommets still fit? Thanks again for you time, you are doing excellent work!
Adam"

porchev914 wrote:

Sellers response:

"No Firsts at this time. Carbon, FG layup with baltek mat filler. Two/three layers (dependant on stress area) CF-baltek-fg layup in two peice mold with a plug for the tool box. Two part Max Clear HP Epoxy Resin (UV resistant) With UV protectant clear coat with flexitive."

Revision to answer:

"No Baltek mat used in this layup. Layup was CFx2-FGx2-CFx2"

My follow up question:

"Thanks for your answer. I have three additional questions though. Was the fiber orientation of the fabric alternated from the 0/90 deg bias to the +45/-45 deg bias? What weight fabric was used for the carbon and fiberglass? Lastly, 6 layers of fabric at nominal finished thickness of .011" per layer (standard 5.7 oz/cu yd carbon) giving you a nominal finished thickness of .066" (assuming similar weight fiberglass fabric). The thickness of the stock part is .165" thick at the mounting points, how do you account for the extra thickness to insure that the stock rubber mounting grommets still fit? Thanks again for you time, you are doing excellent work!
Adam"

I think you may scare the guy with your knowledge lol.

Possibly Terry, but if he's making parts to sell to the general public, he should have good answers to my questions. I actually know very little in the grand scheme, and I wonder if he's though everything through. I'm getting a vibe that the guy is a hack.....who tries to sell poor workmanship? That's a rhetorical question :laugh:

Can I try on this one?

Sounds like to me, he's not vacuum bagging his. That is an easier way.....Not as strong! But still very strong.

Most thick Matt fillers are installed in the second bagging, it saves weight. Most of the time you don't want thick Matt fillers, full of resin.

porchev914 wrote:

Possibly Terry, but if he's making parts to sell to the general public, he should have good answers to my questions. I actually know very little in the grand scheme, and I wonder if he's though everything through. I'm getting a vibe that the guy is a hack.....who tries to sell poor workmanship? That's a rhetorical question :laugh:

Hack or not? His is on the market today....
If he answered all your questions, you will be cutting in on his market + he will lose his R&D.(he is the corner on the market, right now!)

You are being direct because you want answers, that scares some people.

Just a tip, ask yourself......How would Andy Taylor, ask the question?

He might not be vacuum bagging, but I think it would be very difficult to do these kind of shapes without vacuum bagging. Either he isn't vacuum bagging or his mold surfaces are like my first mold surface.....alot of small imperfections. I think the most likely scenario is that he has imperfections like air bubbles and has patched them up leaving the face of the part uneven. I commend him for using the correct materials and I'm sure he'll get his process down.


As far as being on the market first....... I didn't get into this for commercial reasons, so I hope he gets his process down and is successful. I also hope he gets some money for those parts, there is alot of money in materials and time wrapped up in those parts.

porchev914 wrote:

He might not be vacuum bagging, but I think it would be very difficult to do these kind of shapes without vacuum bagging. Either he isn't vacuum bagging or his mold surfaces are like my first mold surface.....alot of small imperfections.

Also true, he is on the market, but none of my questions were of a proprietary nature, they are basic construction principles and practices that anyone making a composite lamiante would employ. If I were asking because I didn't know how to do it and wanted in on his territory, he could answer all my questions and still have nothing to fear. I didn't ask him HOW to do what he did, just his basic materials, layup schedule as it pertains to strength of the piece and his plan to make the stock mounts fit.

As far as asking Mr. Taylor similar questions, I did just that. Any questions along the lines that I asked this guy, Paul was straight foreward and answered everything. For example, I asked how the structural mounting points were made on his monocoque bike chassis, and I was immediately told 25 layers of 5.9 oz/cu yd carbon cloth. He wouldn't divulge the complete layup schedule unfortunately :silly:

Perhaps I'm asking too much of the man? These are questions that if asked of me, I would have no trouble answering. Hell, I have not only shared the same info I asked him with all of you, I have shown anyone reading these threads how to duplicate everything I've done yourselves :laugh: If that isn't as forthcoming as it gets, I don't know what is

It didn't post my reply, just as well.

Perhaps then, I misunderstood you?

The ebay carbon bodywork sold for $50+shipping. I had hoped he would get more, since I know he had more than that in materials in those parts. They were seconds though, so I suspect he was just trying to recoup some of his investment so they wern't a total loss while he continues to improve his methods and techniques. Just about where I'm at. I got 5 lbs of graphite powder ordered today, and it should arrive the 21st. I'll finish prepping the tail so that I can laminate the mold and tank mounts soon after getting the material. 5lbs is ALOT, and it'll probably last me the rest of my life, but it was $21 shipped from a farm supply company in the midwest. The mold making may be delayed due to a work project that is going start next week. 6 days a week, 15 hours a day or so for a month. Not easy, but I NEED the money :S

Yes.....i now weigh all my work related and career goals with the employer in terms of how this will affect my purchasing of motorcycle related equipment and parts.....i can put up with almost twice the amount of abuse and bullshit as the average worker when it is looked at as affecting my projects and bike goals if i dont try harder than the others at my work...

I find it makes me a far more dedicated employee than if i just was looking out for my future as a human and providing for Amy......

i even want to live healthier now ,so i can live longer and finish all six bikes and the others that need homes....

Kawasaki big fours just plain make me a better human in this journey...thank you God...

and thank you Kawasaki too....Amen