Do you really need a special rectifier/regulator for Lithium Batteries?

weeZee wrote: OK, and when the sense wire is connected, this voltage is reduced?
The photo posted last week displayed a lower value, with the sense wire connected can you confirm that this value remained below about 14.3 for idle and 4k?

weeZee wrote: Sorry, but I'm referring to the sense wires on Shindengen RR units, specifically the circuit used to compensate for voltage drop in the loom.
Now if you have some results of the output battery voltage going over a 14.3v preset when the sense wire is floating, that would be informative.
There is no good engineering design reason to have an independent sense circuit in a regulator.
You're making an unsubstantiated assertion, and I find that it's easier to deal with data than egos.

old_kaw wrote:

weeZee wrote: OK, and when the sense wire is connected, this voltage is reduced?
The photo posted last week displayed a lower value, with the sense wire connected can you confirm that this value remained below about 14.3 for idle and 4k?

The only lower value than 13.7 volts was when the amp meter showed 0.0 amps, meaning the engine was off. There is a caption above every photo telling the test conditions. Reading comprehension is a good thing.

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loudhvx wrote:

weeZee wrote: Sorry, but I'm referring to the sense wires on Shindengen RR units, specifically the circuit used to compensate for voltage drop in the loom.
Now if you have some results of the output battery voltage going over a 14.3v preset when the sense wire is floating, that would be informative.
There is no good engineering design reason to have an independent sense circuit in a regulator.
You're making an unsubstantiated assertion, and I find that it's easier to deal with data than egos.

I'm not making any assertion that isn't well-established fact among people who have actually worked on Kz's and have posted their findings here. Everyone else over the last 20 years have found the same results. If a diametrically opposed result, like the one you were speculating on (apparently without actually doing any tests on a working bike) were found, those discussions would have happened decades ago.

You can take up your claim about there being no reason for a sense line with Kawasaki. The fact is, they put one on most of their regulators, and I see at least one reason possibly more why that would be beneficial... but who cares. The facts are that Kz regulators used on permanent-magnet alternators often (but not always) have a brown sense line connected to a switched 12v source. Look at any Kz550 wiring diagram. Look at any post-1980 Kz650 diagram. Look at any Kz750-four diagram. Look at any Kz1000 diagram. And furthermore, removing that brown wire from that type of regulator lets the full alternator output boil the battery.

The internal operation of the regulator may be of importance to the precision required by Lithium batteries and a discussion on it may help explain why some other type of regulator may or may not be better. But forcing others to bring you up to speed and arguing what has to be pure speculation against long-established fact is wasting everyone's time.

SWest wrote: Do you really need a special rectifier/regulator for Lithium Batteries?

weeZee wrote:

old_kaw wrote:

weeZee wrote: OK, and when the sense wire is connected, this voltage is reduced?
The photo posted last week displayed a lower value, with the sense wire connected can you confirm that this value remained below about 14.3 for idle and 4k?

The only lower value than 13.7 volts was when the amp meter showed 0.0 amps, meaning the engine was off. There is a caption above every photo telling the test conditions. Reading comprehension is a good thing.

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What I'm asking is simply whether you have a photo showing the voltage coming out of the RR with the sense wire disconnected and the bike at around 4k rpm.
Apologies if I've missed this in the thread, but there appears to be a lot of heat and light. Perhaps you can assist.

weeZee wrote: I would argue that you're equally culpable of wasting time by repeating hearsay rather than posting data or circuits.

SWest wrote: LAST TRY

SWest wrote: Do you really need a special rectifier/regulator for Lithium Batteries?

old_kaw wrote:

weeZee wrote:

old_kaw wrote:

weeZee wrote: OK, and when the sense wire is connected, this voltage is reduced?
The photo posted last week displayed a lower value, with the sense wire connected can you confirm that this value remained below about 14.3 for idle and 4k?

The only lower value than 13.7 volts was when the amp meter showed 0.0 amps, meaning the engine was off. There is a caption above every photo telling the test conditions. Reading comprehension is a good thing.

Attachment not found

What I'm asking is simply whether you have a photo showing the voltage coming out of the RR with the sense wire disconnected and the bike at around 4k rpm.
Apologies if I've missed this in the thread, but there appears to be a lot of heat and light. Perhaps you can assist.

If you read post #804427 (again?) , I already posted this info once today. It is posted about 7 comments back. You can see the wire disconnected from the relay on my fluke meter.

It's probably about time for you to dig out your meter and try this testing on your bike. See it first hand.

dpivas7 wrote:

SWest wrote: LAST TRY

SWest wrote: Do you really need a special rectifier/regulator for Lithium Batteries?

To answer the question I potsed directly to the best of my understanding:

Based on some info from this thread, talking to people I work with, as well as talking to the people at Rick's Motorsports (where I bought my special R/R), it seems like it is highly recommended to use a special R/R as lithium batteries (Li-ion & LiFe-Po) more sensitive to voltage fluctuations than normal lead-acid batteries. This has to do with the way the batteries are constructed - which I do not understand but makes sense in a way. When a lithium battery is fully charged, it likes to operate at a reduced voltage for some reason. This also makes the battery last longer.

Lithium batteries also do not like to be overcharged which is why I was recommended the special R/R in the first place. If the generator from the motorcycle is "feeding" the battery too much energy, it overheats and goes ka-bloom (I think). The R/R I got from Rick's regulates the (input/output?.. I think input but not really sure) voltage to a max of like 14.2V or something like that because the battery I got likes to operate at around 13.7V (WILL CONFIRM when I get home).

However, it seems like there are some other workarounds you can do if you do not want to splurge for a special R/R which runs $100+. Mine was $125. Those workarounds seem to require a higher level understanding of electrical circuits that I, and probably most non-electricians or non-electrical engineers, do not have. I went the "safe" route and spent the money on the R/R to go with my LiFe-Po battery. I am finishing up my engine swap (waiting on some gaskets) and hope to get the bike started this weekend so I will update with what I learn about how it actually works.

If you don't feel like risking it, go with a traditional battery.