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TOPIC: ignitor wiring zr550

ignitor wiring zr550 19 Jun 2018 21:26 #785484

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So I bought a beautiful aftermarket ignition system for my zr550 and I'm wondering if you kind gentlemen may have some insight into a couple of wiring questions. First, just FYI, here's the system:

Attachment not found



It's higher power than stock (40K volts versus 20-30K). The discharge current is 1.5 to 2 times normal and the discharge time is 2 to 3 times of normal. The primary coil resistance value of the SPII high power coil is 1.2 Ω (Normally 3 to 6 Ω). All that power allows you to increase the spark plug gap from 0.6 to 1.3mm. Comes with 10 ignition curves custom tuned to each motorcycle model (+8 advance to -10 retard) and an adjustable rev limiter. The manufacturer, Uotani, is famous in Japan and indeed the unit got rave reviews on Webike, all 4-5 stars, with Google translated phrases like "torque is overflowing" and "it is like riding liter bike for first time [for a zr400 review]."

Now here's the complication. It's made for a zr400 and I have a zr550. There are slight wiring differences between the two. Actually, to be more precise, the zr400 and European zr550 wiring harnesses appear to be identical, but they are both different the US spec harness. For simplicity in the following discussion, when I say zr400 I mean the zr400 and European zr550 wiring and when I say zr550 I mean the US wiring.

Here is the Haynes manual wiring for the zr400. Largely correct as far as I can tell:

Attachment not found



Here is the factory wiring diagram for the zr400 (in Japanese!):

Attachment not found



Here is the Haynes manual for the zr550. There is one error as far as I can tell - the ignitor should have a BK/Y wire coming out of it.

Attachment not found



Here is the factory zr550 wiring diagram. This correctly shows the BK/Y that is missing from the Haynes manual.

Attachment not found



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1990 Zephyr zr550 B1
Factory Pro Stage 1 jet kit
zx550 cams
SPII ignition system
Kerker stainless steel race exhaust with 1.5" competition baffle
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ignitor wiring zr550 19 Jun 2018 21:27 #785485

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OK, two more pics and we're ready for the questions. Here's one of the connectors to the ignitor from the zr550. The zr400 connector is identical, with five wires, except it has a brown wire instead of a red one.


And lastly, here is what that connector is supposed to plug into from the Uotani ignitor (connector on the right side of the photo). Notice it has only four wires and one additional blue bullet connector.


Here are the questions.

The Uotani has only four wires. It does not connect to the G/BK wire in the zr550 and zr400 diagrams. This wire connects the ignitor with the starter circuit relay. What does that connection usually accomplish? I'm trying to understand how the Uotani unit can do without it.

The zr400 has an extra grey bullet connector that goes from IG to the pick up coil input of the ignition module. This grey wire is supposed to attach to the blue bullet lead of the Uotani unit. This wire is missing from the zr550 harness. What does this grey wire accomplish? The ignition is already getting power from the R (zr550) or Br(zr400) wires. The only difference that I can see between the two is that the R wire passes through the stop switch on the way to the ignitor and the Br passes through the stop switch after the ignitor but before the coil. Could I tap into the R wire on my zr550 to feed the blue bullet connector on the Uotani module? If not, why not and what else should I try?

Thanks very much for any thoughts!

Cheers,
Mark
1990 Zephyr zr550 B1
Factory Pro Stage 1 jet kit
zx550 cams
SPII ignition system
Kerker stainless steel race exhaust with 1.5" competition baffle
K&N Air Filter...
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ignitor wiring zr550 20 Jun 2018 04:02 #785497

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If you a or pin-out diagrams the customer can't figure this out, I bet there are others as well. Did is come with any other instructions on or in the boxes showing a pin-out diagram? Please add a picture of that too.


For the price you paid for this kit, you could have had a 615 kit, and cams. Bore labor would be additional. :)
'85 GPz550(ZX550-A2)

GPz550 Base Manual --> tinyurl.com/ze5b3qo
GPz550 Supplement Manual --> tinyurl.com/h34d2o6
GPz550.com --> www.nwsca.com/scripts/gpz_forum_2005/default.asp
First Race Win GPz550 --> tinyurl.com/o5y3ftp

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ignitor wiring zr550 20 Jun 2018 07:48 #785513

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CoreyClough wrote: If you a or pin-out diagrams the customer can't figure this out, I bet there are others as well. Did is come with any other instructions on or in the boxes showing a pin-out diagram? Please add a picture of that too.


It came with instructions (in Japanese) but no diagrams. I could always contact them but I think communication will be difficult, and I'm not really "supposed" to be using this on a 550.
The connections for the six pin connector look like this:
output connector || Uotani input
R (zr550/Br (zr400) - > R
BK/Y -> BK
G -> R/Y
B -> Y

And then the grey wire (which I don't have) is supposed to go to the Uotani blue lead. The other 2-pin connector is for signal from the pickup coil.

CoreyClough wrote: For the price you paid for this kit, you could have had a 615 kit, and cams. Bore labor would be additional. :)



Hah, I'll get those too at some point. What's the use of money if not to buy cool things for one's motorcycle? Plus, each year I drop a few hundred $ on my bike is a year I don't succumb to the temptation to buy a much more expensive new one! I just saved myself thousands! ;)
1990 Zephyr zr550 B1
Factory Pro Stage 1 jet kit
zx550 cams
SPII ignition system
Kerker stainless steel race exhaust with 1.5" competition baffle
K&N Air Filter...

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ignitor wiring zr550 20 Jun 2018 10:35 #785518

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The extra wire is usually an interlock safety... Like kickstand switch kills the bike in gear etc. Just ignore that wire on the bike harness since the aftermarket ignition wont have that option. You can tell the interlock wire because it will go to something like a diode block, or to a box called "logic unit" or something obscure like that.

I'll look closer at your diagrams later, just in case.

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ignitor wiring zr550 20 Jun 2018 10:37 #785519

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On the picture that shows the blue box, could you take a close-up picture of that with what looks like a schematic on it?

'85 GPz550(ZX550-A2)

GPz550 Base Manual --> tinyurl.com/ze5b3qo
GPz550 Supplement Manual --> tinyurl.com/h34d2o6
GPz550.com --> www.nwsca.com/scripts/gpz_forum_2005/default.asp
First Race Win GPz550 --> tinyurl.com/o5y3ftp
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ignitor wiring zr550 20 Jun 2018 16:54 #785538

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So on the bike, you will see a green/black wire. That wire is to shut down the ignition for various safety reasons. Ignore that wire.

The rest should be self-explanatory. You identified the black yellow wire is missing on that one diagram. The black/yellow wire is a ground wire as you surmised.
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ignitor wiring zr550 20 Jun 2018 18:16 #785545

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loudhvx wrote: So on the bike, you will see a green/black wire. That wire is to shut down the ignition for various safety reasons. Ignore that wire.

The rest should be self-explanatory. You identified the black yellow wire is missing on that one diagram. The black/yellow wire is a ground wire as you surmised.


Thanks for digging in Lou!
So it's common for aftermarket ignitors to ignore safety features like kickstand switches? Doesn't seem very, well, safe.

Do you have any suggestions for what to do about the blue Uotani module wire? It's supposed to connect to the grey wire (which goes uninterrupted to IG) on the zr400, but that grey wire is missing on my bike. I was thinking of connecting it to the red wire on my bike (which goes to IG, passing through the stop switch on the way).
1990 Zephyr zr550 B1
Factory Pro Stage 1 jet kit
zx550 cams
SPII ignition system
Kerker stainless steel race exhaust with 1.5" competition baffle
K&N Air Filter...

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ignitor wiring zr550 20 Jun 2018 18:20 #785546

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CoreyClough wrote: On the picture that shows the blue box, could you take a close-up picture of that with what looks like a schematic on it?


It's not a schematic - just shows the different rev limiter and ignition curve settings -

1990 Zephyr zr550 B1
Factory Pro Stage 1 jet kit
zx550 cams
SPII ignition system
Kerker stainless steel race exhaust with 1.5" competition baffle
K&N Air Filter...
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ignitor wiring zr550 20 Jun 2018 22:37 #785552

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The Haynes U.K. Zr550B2B3 diagram shows a third wire on the pickup connector, but it seems to just dead-end at the ignition switch.
The Japanese Zr400C3C4 diagram shows a third wire on the pickup connector. I can see it goes to the ignition switch, but cannot make out the detail of where it goes from there, if anywhere.

The Haynes U.S. Zr550B diagram shows only two wires on the pickup connector. (And also is missing the ground as mentioned before.)
The factory U.S. Zr550B1 diagram shows only two wires on the pickup connector.

So the igniters all have 5 wires on the main connector:
+12v
Gnd
1-4 coil wire
2-3 coil wire
interlock wire

The U.K. Zr550 and Japanese Zr400 have the additional mystery wire on the pickup connector.
It's difficult to tell what this wire does since one diagram shows it going to nothing, and the other is not clear.

If you have the Japanese diagram in your posession, can you get a better image of the ignition switch portion?

The mystery wire is not shown connecting to the starter circuit, but I wonder if it might be. It could be used to retard the spark during startup, or it could be to provide more voltage to the pickup wires to get a stronger signal since the motor will be turning slowly during startup.

The question is if the mystery wire is supposed to connect to the blue wire on the new ignition, or if the interlock wire is supposed to connect to the blue wire. I suspect it would be the mystery wire based on the shape of the connector on the blue wire. The diagrams show the mystery wire having a single spade or bullet connector.

Also, if they were including an interlock wire, I think it would be on the main connector just as all of the diagrams show.

If it was me, I'd probably first try to run it with the wire disconnected and see if all of the timing parameters are met.
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ignitor wiring zr550 21 Jun 2018 04:36 #785556

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loudhvx wrote: If you have the Japanese diagram in your possession, can you get a better image of the ignition switch portion?


Is this just showing, for instance, that BR and W are connected when the switch is set to ON? If so then the mystery GY wire is connected to "----", which doesn't seem very helpful. I'll ask a Japanese friend to decipher the text directly above the colors, though I can tell it's the same characters for GY, "----" and BR. Those all map to "IG" in the other diagrams.



loudhvx wrote:
The question is if the mystery wire is supposed to connect to the blue wire on the new ignition, or if the interlock wire is supposed to connect to the blue wire. I suspect it would be the mystery wire based on the shape of the connector on the blue wire. The diagrams show the mystery wire having a single spade or bullet connector.


I think you are right. The Uotani ignitor is supposed to be plug and play on the zr400 - which would mean that the interlock wire would be ignored and the blue bullet connector would connect to the grey mystery bullet lead.
1990 Zephyr zr550 B1
Factory Pro Stage 1 jet kit
zx550 cams
SPII ignition system
Kerker stainless steel race exhaust with 1.5" competition baffle
K&N Air Filter...
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ignitor wiring zr550 21 Jun 2018 06:07 #785558

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Thanks for the better image. Yes, that diagram concurs with the color U.K. one. The mystery wire seems to go to nothing.
Note there is no wire between GY and BL, meaning the switch contact is not connected to a wire.

The Katakana labels don't help much either. I think they just say "ignition".

"----" as a wire label is a nice touch on the part of the technician who drew the diagram.... to add to the mystique. :)

There is a chance the blue wire on the new igniter is not connected to anything either. But they put it there just to make hookup faster in case someone with a Zr400 didn't want to read the diagram. Try ohming out the blue wire to every other wire on the igniter swapping the polarity of the meter leads. By that I mean ohm everything out twice. Once with the black meter lead on the blue wire, then once with the red meter lead on the blue wire. Hopefully it shows no continuity, or maybe direct continuity to ground or power. No continuity doesn't necessarily mean there is no connection, because it could go to a relay contact or something, but at least it gives a clue.

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ignitor wiring zr550 21 Jun 2018 08:31 #785575

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loudhvx wrote:
There is a chance the blue wire on the new igniter is not connected to anything either. But they put it there just to make hookup faster in case someone with a Zr400 didn't want to read the diagram. Try ohming out the blue wire to every other wire on the igniter swapping the polarity of the meter leads. By that I mean ohm everything out twice. Once with the black meter lead on the blue wire, then once with the red meter lead on the blue wire. Hopefully it shows no continuity, or maybe direct continuity to ground or power. No continuity doesn't necessarily mean there is no connection, because it could go to a relay contact or something, but at least it gives a clue.



Good idea, though I'm not sure how to interpret the results. I'm getting resistance measures (if I swap around meter leads) between blue and all the other wires. Would it help to provide specific resistance numbers? I do get some different results if I swap the meter leads (e.g. if I put meter red to blue and meter black to red, I get no continuity (0.L reading on meter). Every other combination with meter red on blue gives a resistance value. On the other hand, with meter black to blue, I get resistance values for everything except I get 0.L readings for the Y and the Y/R wires.


Just to be clear, these are the wire colors I'm referring to.



These are the mappings of these wires to the zr550 six-pin connector (from an earlier post)
output connector || Uotani input
R (zr550/Br (zr400) - > R
BK/Y -> BK
G -> R/Y
B -> Y

I'm going to try to install the igniter tomorrow . I think I'll try it first with the blue lead unconnected as suggested.
1990 Zephyr zr550 B1
Factory Pro Stage 1 jet kit
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SPII ignition system
Kerker stainless steel race exhaust with 1.5" competition baffle
K&N Air Filter...
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ignitor wiring zr550 22 Jun 2018 07:31 #785644

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Well, I can't really imagine what the wire would do then. Strange that it would have any connection since the bikes it's meant to go on seem to show no connection on their harnesses.

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ignitor wiring zr550 22 Jun 2018 07:53 #785647

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Well this is funny. I checked out the zr750 wiring diagram and I see two dead-end wires from the igniter, a grey one and a pink one! So mysterious.



I'm going to install the igniter with the blue wire unattached today.. We'll see. If that doesn't work I might try running a positive lead to it. Not sure why it would need it but that's the only thing that could be coming out of the ignition switch as far as I can tell. I don't see any grounded wires going in.
1990 Zephyr zr550 B1
Factory Pro Stage 1 jet kit
zx550 cams
SPII ignition system
Kerker stainless steel race exhaust with 1.5" competition baffle
K&N Air Filter...
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ignitor wiring zr550 22 Jun 2018 07:59 #785649

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random thought - it seems like unattached wires coming from electronics are usually antennae. I can't imagine any use for antennae in an igniter, but maybe it's to help dissipate electronic noise or for calibration or something crazy like that? I mean it's doubly weird that the zr750 would have two of them...
1990 Zephyr zr550 B1
Factory Pro Stage 1 jet kit
zx550 cams
SPII ignition system
Kerker stainless steel race exhaust with 1.5" competition baffle
K&N Air Filter...

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ignitor wiring zr550 22 Jun 2018 16:56 #785681

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Yes, but then why go to the ignition switch? It is a good puzzle.
Maybe it's like what map-makers do... intentionally draw mistakes into their maps so if someone else publishes the same mistake, they know it was copied from their map, rather than drawn from actual cartographic research.

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ignitor wiring zr550 22 Jun 2018 18:21 #785683

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Well looks like the ignition is working fine without the blue wire. Just took the bike for a spin. Start-up was ridiculously easy - a split second on the switch. Haven't noticed any change in power, though everything is super-smooth. Looking forward to playing with the different curves. Thanks for your help, Lou!
1990 Zephyr zr550 B1
Factory Pro Stage 1 jet kit
zx550 cams
SPII ignition system
Kerker stainless steel race exhaust with 1.5" competition baffle
K&N Air Filter...

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ignitor wiring zr550 23 Jun 2018 08:36 #785721

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That's great!
Have you played with the plug gaps yet? As long as the coils and igniter are designed to handle that, you should notice at least a small difference.

The blue wire makes me want to buy one and cut it open to see what the heck it's for.

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ignitor wiring zr550 23 Jun 2018 10:33 #785729

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loudhvx wrote: That's great!
Have you played with the plug gaps yet? As long as the coils and igniter are designed to handle that, you should notice at least a small difference.


Yes, they recommended setting the gap at 1.1-1.3mm (stock is 0.6-0.7mm). I set it at 1.2mm. Went for a nice ride just now. Start-up is comically easy. I don't know if there's really more power but it feels peppier and for lack of a better word, "thicker" throughout the rev range. Not sure how else to describe it. It's beefier. I played a bit with the advance curves and was surprised to find that the ideal setting seems to be at 0. If I advance or retard the ignition timing even 2 degrees it seems I lose a little power. Seems unlikely but there it is. I'll keep playing with it.

loudhvx wrote: The blue wire makes me want to buy one and cut it open to see what the heck it's for.



Lol, I'm super-curious too, but that would be an expensive experiment! I'll contact them directly and see if they have any further info.
1990 Zephyr zr550 B1
Factory Pro Stage 1 jet kit
zx550 cams
SPII ignition system
Kerker stainless steel race exhaust with 1.5" competition baffle
K&N Air Filter...

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