New Owner! Sad Tale. - Ignition

Hey All!
I'm a newb here. A newb to everything! New rider, new bike owner, new forum register.
Anyhow, I picked up a 76 KZ400 that ran like a champ. Well, after I changed the coil. Initially it ran pretty badly, troubleshot determined it was the coil. After that, no problems at all besides a minor misfire when gassing it 100% throttle at too low of an RPM(my fault).

The other day, Ohio, where I live, had a massive rain storm. Lots of heavy wind and rain, pretty intense. Set off a bunch of tornadoes and such. Anyhow, my bike was caught in it. It was not on, ignition was not running or anything of that nature, but it sat outside uncovered(didn't make it back in time.)

So I went to go start it last night (one day later, almost a full 24 hours of dry weather, but humid), and it wouldn't fire. It cranks no problem, the lights come on, it has lots of gas, there is no room for water in the tank(just filled to the top) and it turns over, but does not start. Hooked the battery to a charger, also tried kick-starting, no start. I tested the resistance at the coil(brand new Dyna Coil), and it looks okay. Test the resistance between the blue and orange wires that run to the coil, they have resistance(complete circuit?). The plugs and wires are new. Last night I put dialectric grease all over the plugs, plug caps, the coil output plugs, and all that, in hope it was a lose/wet connection, but to no avail. Sprayed most of the electrical circuits with wd-40 and wiped them clean.

The only thing I know I don't have: Spark. I pulled the plugs, held it against metal(I know, I know) and also visually watched the plug not spark when cranking. So I have fuel, air, but no spark. What could have gone wrong in the major rain storm?

Also, should the blue wire to the coil have any voltage when cranking? I couldn't get it to show any voltage with ignition on, or when cranking. The Orange wire showed voltage with ignition on.

I believe the blue wire goes to the points system.

Any insight? It's upsetting. Only had the bike a week or two.

Thanks!

I know you said that you charged the battery, but did you check it to see if it was holding a charge?

Troubleshooting A Wet Motorcycle (Won’t Start/Run)

1. When motorcycles get wet, many things can happen to prevent normal starting and running.

2. Ignition coils, due to their mounting location under the gas tank, can overheat if sufficient air flow is not provided causing minute cracks for moisture to get in shorting the coil.

3. Sparkplugs wires and caps need to be replaced as the heat from the engine makes the wires(High Tension Leads) get brittle causing the insulation to fail. The caps contain a resistor to limit the RFI(the snap and pop heard on radio’s) that will fail, again from heat/age.

4. Most Japanese motorcycle electrical connectors are open at the rear, letting in moisture that will collect on the male and female pins/sockets
causing a short, blowing a fuse or creating corrosion limiting current flow.

5.Check the right handlebar switch pod for signs of corrosion or broken wires on the run/stop switch. Some older Kawasaki’s are experiencing broken/crumbled solder joints in switches.

6. I recommend buying a spray can of “De-oxit” electrical contact cleaner/preservative available at Radio Shack Stores in the U.S. or any other electronic supply store. www.deoxit.com is their website.

7. I’d advise not using WD-40 on any electrical connection/fuse clips as it over time becomes a non conductor(more like an insulator).

8. If the popular “Pods” type air filter is used and gets wet, it will act like having the choke on causing a very rich condition. The only repair for wet pods is to remove them and either using an oven set at 250 F, a wet/dry shop vac to vacuum the moisture from the filters, or a air nozzle at low pressure to blow the water away.

9. Use caution when using an air nozzle as at high pressure, the fabric of the filter medium may tear making the filter unusable.



Cleaning Motorcycle Electrics

Get some of the De-Oxit electrical contact cleaner and figure on spending a good day going from the front of the bike to the back. It’s a plastic safe cleaner/preservative. www.deoxit.com is their website.

On the older Kawasaki's, a majority of electrical connectors are inside the headlight housing requiring removal of the headlight, then the fun begins.

Do one set of electrical connectors at a time to avoid mixing up what connects to where. Usually disconnecting, spraying with De-Oxit and reconnecting is about all you'll need.

However, when encountering the green crud of corrosion, a brass wire brush may be needed on the pins you can reach.
Some 400-600 grit wet and dry sandpaper strips rolled into a tube should reach the male and female pins in the more difficult to clean connectors.

Smoker’s pipe cleaners, cotton swabs and wooden toothpicks work as cleaning aids.

Really small electrical connectors may require the use of a welders tip cleaning tool assortment.

Most pins in the connectors are coated with a thin plating of tin, and others may be nothing more than copper or brass.

If moisture is added, the resulting corrosion lowers the voltage/current being carried causing dim lights, slow engine cranking, slow turn signal responce and lower input voltage to the ignition coils resulting in weak spark.

The left and right handlebar switch pods will need attention too as they have circuit functions like turn, horn, run/stop, and start.

Usually a spritz or two with actuation of the switch is about all needed for these switches unless corrosion is detected and then careful disassembly is required.

The ignition switch may or may be not sealed to allow spraying the internal contacts. I urge caution if attempting to open this up as springs, and ball bearings may fly out never to be seen again!

If your bike has the older style glass tubed fuses, I suggest replacing them as vibration can cause internal failure. AGX is the type used, and most auto parts stores can get them for you.

Clean the fuse holder clips, looking for signs of overheating(discolored insulation, signs of melting).
I use metal polish on a cotton swab, followed by spraying another clean swab with the De-Oxit and then rubbing the inside of the fuse clip.

All battery cables must be clean and tight for maximum current transfer. Check the cables going from the Negative(-) battery terminal/post to the engine mounting bolt

Also the one going from the Positive(+) terminal to the starter solenoid and from there to the starter motor.

If any battery cable feels ”Crunchy” when flexed, replace it as possible corrosion is inside the insulation.

Each "Bullet Connector" will have to be sprayed to ensure good connectivity, especially the ones going to the energizing coil of the starter solenoid.

The alternator output “Bullet Connectors” are usually behind the engine sprocket cover and will need inspecting and cleaning too.

The turn signal light sockets will benefit from a spritz from the contact cleaner along with the tail light/brake light socket.

Some brake light switches can be sprayed on the actuating rod, with the spray running down inside to the electrical contacts, others may be sealed requiring replacement if the switch is intermittent in operation.

Some people put the Di-Electric Grease on cleaned terminations/connectors, I don’t, as I’ve read/heard it can cause problems when it gets hot, actually insulating the connections, so the choice is yours to use or not.

I think I've covered about all of the electrical systems on the bike.........



If you don't have one, get yourself a cheap multimeter for electrical troubleshooting. Using it, you can see where the voltage/current is and isn't. Radio Shack,Home Depot,Lowes, & Sears sell inexpensive multimeters.

For future reference: do not try to start the bike while the battery is hooked up to a charger or another vehicle that has its engine running. Bad electric karma. Ed

cobura wrote: I know you said that you charged the battery, but did you check it to see if it was holding a charge?

Well, I suppose I have not but I would think it would kick start either way, no?

Also, thank you for the checklist, I've run through 90% of it already outside of complete disassembly of the headlight. I was hoping there was an obvious answer that I was ignorant of . Ha

Ripped apart the headlight and checked the connections and cleaned them - they appear okay. Nothing too corroded or wet/messed up. I really am at a loss as to why it just cranks without getting any spark.

Check the input votage at the primary(small wires side of the ignition coils), if no voltage, look at the right handlebar switch pod run/stop switch. Some of the older Kawasaki's are having trouble with the soldered joints crumbling or corrosion in the switch contacts.

rickdeaconx wrote: ...76 KZ400...ran like a champ...massive rain storm...bike was caught in...outside uncovered...one day later...it wouldn't fire...new Dyna Coil...plugs and wires are new...don't have: Spark. I pulled the plugs, held it against metal(I know, I know) and also visually watched the plug not spark when cranking. So I have fuel, air, but no spark. What could have gone wrong in the major rain storm?

Also, should the blue wire to the coil have any voltage when cranking? I couldn't get it to show any voltage with ignition on, or when cranking. The Orange wire showed voltage with ignition on.

I believe the blue wire goes to the points system....

With both spark plugs simultaneously grounded, both should spark.
If one plug isn't grounded, the other generally won't spark.



Would repeat the spark observation test with brand new plugs, both grounded during the test.
Plugs may be grounded against the engine, or grounded to each other:



The coil primary winding is supposed to be successively grounded and ungrounded by closing and opening of the points.



Given the new ignition components (coil, plug wires, and plug boots/caps), and coil receiving voltage, I suspect the points are failing to provide grounding and ungrounding of the blue wire, perhaps due to dampness from moisture condensation under the points cover, or possibly moisture under plug caps/boots.

Would assure the points area is dry.
Then clean and dress the point contacts.
And set correct gap.

Use ohmmeter to determine whether
(1) closed points provide blue wire conductivity to ground, and
(2) open points disallow blue wire conductivity to ground.

Another test method:
Detach the blue wire from coil terminal so it may be tapped against the terminal;
Ignition switch ON (orange wire providing power to coil), both plugs grounded, and observing for spark;
Plugs should spark when blue wire is removed from coil terminal.

Also assure Dyna coil's terminal screw head isn't shorting against the coil mounting spacer.

Good Fortune!

Patton wrote:

rickdeaconx wrote: ...76 KZ400...ran like a champ...massive rain storm...bike was caught in...outside uncovered...one day later...it wouldn't fire...new Dyna Coil...plugs and wires are new...don't have: Spark. I pulled the plugs, held it against metal(I know, I know) and also visually watched the plug not spark when cranking. So I have fuel, air, but no spark. What could have gone wrong in the major rain storm?

Also, should the blue wire to the coil have any voltage when cranking? I couldn't get it to show any voltage with ignition on, or when cranking. The Orange wire showed voltage with ignition on.

I believe the blue wire goes to the points system....

With both spark plugs simultaneously grounded, both should spark.
If one plug isn't grounded, the other generally won't spark.

Would repeat the spark observation test with brand new plugs, both grounded during the test.
Plugs may be grounded against the engine, or grounded to each other:

The coil primary winding is supposed to be successively grounded and ungrounded by closing and opening of the points.

Given the new ignition components (coil, plug wires, and plug boots/caps), and coil receiving voltage, I suspect the points are failing to provide grounding and ungrounding of the blue wire, perhaps due to dampness from moisture condensation under the points cover, or possibly moisture under plug caps/boots.

Would assure the points area is dry.
Then clean and dress the point contacts.
And set correct gap.

Use ohmmeter to determine whether
(1) closed points provide blue wire conductivity to ground, and
(2) open points disallow blue wire conductivity to ground.

Another test method:
Detach the blue wire from coil terminal so it may be tapped against the terminal;
Ignition switch ON (orange wire providing power to coil), both plugs grounded, and observing for spark;
Plugs should spark when blue wire is removed from coil terminal.

Also assure Dyna coil's terminal screw head isn't shorting against the coil mounting spacer.

Good Fortune!

Wow! Thank you very much for your help!

rickdeaconx wrote: Also, should the blue wire to the coil have any voltage when cranking? I couldn't get it to show any voltage with ignition on, or when cranking. The Orange wire showed voltage with ignition on.

I believe the blue wire goes to the points system.

Any insight? It's upsetting. Only had the bike a week or two.

Thanks!

You identified the problem right there. If you never have voltage at the points wire, then it is constantly grounded, and the coil fires when it is "un"grounded. Take a look at the points.

Thanks everyone! I have determined it was in fact the coil. I put the old coil(which works but got very iffy when warm) on there, and the spark plugs fired no problem.

It's time for a new ignition coil(s) when they/it becomes unable to provide spark when hot. Accel, and Dyna make good replacements. One nice thing about these coils is they accept the 7mm sparkplug wires available most anywhere.