Kaw electronic ignition vs Dyna S

At the moment I am in the process of rebuilding my '77 Z1000A. It has a Dyna S with Accel coils. The coils are shot however. As I happen to have a complete Kawa factory electronic ignition off of a J or P-model, I'd like you guys' opinion on the benefits of one type over the other before treating myself to a set of Dyna green coils.
I understand the Dyna uses more power, but the Dyna is about 10 years old vs about triple that age for the Kaw ignition. When I am 400 miles from home on holiday in a foreign country I do _not_ want to be breaking down. Then again, I have heard some scary stories on Dyna as well. Still, anything is better than points...

OK, here we go. First of all the two ignitions require different coils. Dyna is a 3 Ohm system and the Kawasaki is a 2.2 Ohm system. Green 3 Ohm coils for the Dyna and Gray 2.2 Ohm coils for the Kawasaki. The Dyna was designed as a better alternative for the Points ignition bikes, not an upgrade for the electronic ignition bikes. The Kawasaki ignition is actually quite a bit better than the Dyna ignition. I finally got someone at Dyna to admit that after some extensive questioning. It seams like either way with what you have on hand you will loose the benefit of the high out put coils unless you buy new coils either way. All in all I would say you are better off with the Kawasaki ignition. You would be BETTER off with the Kawasaki Ignition and the Gray coils. You would be the BEST off with "loudhvx" GM Ignition mod kit using the Kawasaki pick-ups and the gray coils.
home.comcast.net/~loudgpz/GPZweb/Ignition/GPZgmHEImod.html
I don't understand why this will not work as a link. You may have to copy and past in your address bar.

To get the link to work, you have to use the bbcode tags for URL. I think the tilda (~) symbol won't allow a regular hyperlink to work.
home.comcast.net/~loudgpz/GPZweb/Ignition/GPZgmHEImod.html

Basically, the main difference is that the factory ignition varies the dwell to help reduce the electrical power waste at lower RPMs. This saves a lot of elecrical power at lower RPMs and also saves the coils from having to dissipate a lot excess of heat.

The factory ignition uses almost no power at all when the motor is not turning. The Dyna S uses full power when the motor is not turning. Leaving the ignition on can be catastrophic with the Dyna S (this can happen with points as well).

The only part of the factory ignition that you can't buy brand new is the pickups. The module can be built from that link. Also, in my opinion, the factory pickups, as long as they are not abused, will outlast the Dyna S pickups. The factory pickups are just a coil of wire and a magnet. The Dyna puts integrated electronics right on the timing plate which takes a lot of heat and vibration ... not a great environment to operate in.

However after 30+ years, the pickups are susceptible to moisture. I've been trying to track down a source to replace the actual pickup coils themselves, but they are expensive. Each pickup is about $60 or so, and we need two.

Thanks for the replies! That DIY ignition looks very interesting, but I think I'll start with the Kaw igniter and maybe build the "loudhvx"-ignition later on. I'll have to buy new coils no matter what I do, and it just occurred to me that 2.2 ohm coils are probably used in a lot of newer bikes as well. The most cost-effective way (total cost on the rebuild has been sky-rocketing as of late) would be to find out which modern bikes use 2,2 ohm coils and get some second-hand coils.

No eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationI wouldn't risk it you are much better off to get a set of Dyna Gray coils. The 2.2 ohm coils were only used for a few years and than the systems went to 3 Ohm coils. The earlier systems were 3 Ohm with Ballast resistors. I bought a set of gray coils on eBay for a very reasonable price because they are not a popular item. The benefit of the high output coils is that you can run a MUCH larger gap than stock and that improves fuel burn efficiency and power. I run a .060 gap on mine with Accell "U" grove plugs and I get fantastic performance and economy

Here is a brand new set for a fantastic price including shipping.



And there are more on eBay.

Second hand coils are a gamble, trust me I've had some bad ones.

The green 3 ohm Dyna coils can be used with Kaw Elec Ignition, and it works fine.

Personally, I like the Dyna S because of its symplicity and its all hidden. Theres a little more to do with the Kaw ignighter, still not bad.

Either can fail without notice, but they really dont have a tendancy to do so.

GL.

Using the Green coils with a stock Kawasaki ignition you will lose 27% of your spark energy. You might as well go with stock Kawasaki 2.2 Ohm coils that you can buy brand new from Z1E. That's sort of like running Premium gasoline in a low compression engine. It will run fine but there is no added effect and you are paying more for it. WHY?

I use the Accel 3 ohm coils with the factory ignition on several 550 bikes (10:1 compression) and have no problems with them. If you already have 3 ohm coils, use them, they will probably work. If you need new coils, then get the 2.2 ohm coils for use with the factory ignition. Also, if the compression is much higher than normal, then you'll want the 2.2 ohm coils.

The spark energy will really only be an issue at higher rpms where the dwell time is very short. At lower RPMs, the dwell time is so long, pretty much any coil will reach saturation.

The mod I designed specifies a 2.4 ohm minimum coil resistance in order to not go into current-limit mode on the HEI modules. The only issue with using 2.2 ohm coils is there is a chance the HEI's will run a little warmer if they get into current-limit mode. However, this is still nowhere near the stress they are put under in a V-8 car. There, they run much hotter and don't get any cool air on them in the car. They also run a nearly continuous duty cycle. On the bike they barely get warm and don't even get a 25% duty cycle at idle (about 33% at higher RPMs).

loudhvx wrote:

I use the Accel 3 ohm coils with the factory ignition on several 550 bikes (10:1 compression) and have no problems with them. If you already have 3 ohm coils, use them, they will probably work. If you need new coils, then get the 2.2 ohm coils for use with the factory ignition. Also, if the compression is much higher than normal, then you'll want the 2.2 ohm coils.

The spark energy will really only be an issue at higher rpms where the dwell time is very short. At lower RPMs, the dwell time is so long, pretty much any coil will reach saturation.

The mod I designed specifies a 2.4 ohm minimum coil resistance in order to not go into current-limit mode on the HEI modules. The only issue with using 2.2 ohm coils is there is a chance the HEI's will run a little warmer if they get into current-limit mode. However, this is still nowhere near the stress they are put under in a V-8 car. There, they run much hotter and don't get any cool air on them in the car. They also run a nearly continuous duty cycle. On the bike they barely get warm and don't even get a 25% duty cycle at idle (about 33% at higher RPMs).

I was getting carpel Tunnel. I'm glad you wrote all that.

Thanks for the heads-up on Ebay, Otakar. Z1-Enterprises is cheaper though, and I have nothing but good experiences with them. But: I just checked their site, and they specify the coils for the J-model as 2.4 ohms. That would mean the gray coils might overload/destroy the factory ignition (probably only the igniter though, I'd guess the pick-ups shouldn't be affected). Otoh, the FSM for the J-model states that the factory coils should measure between 1.8 and 2.8 Ohms, so maybe the 0.2 Ohm difference isn't such a big deal and I should just get a set of the gray coils.
A 'usable' range of impedance for the primaries of 1.8-2.8 Ohms makes me wonder about the quality of Kawasaki coils though. Measured without a load, there is no reason the primaries should change with age, and it really is not difficult to wind these with consistent values.

The gray coils are specifically designed for that ignition. I have been running them now for over two years and about 14000 miles with nothing but perfect results. Z1E would always be my first choice for shopping also. The gray coils are what you want.

At Z1E they are $126 + Post.