Coils

bill_wilcox100 wrote:

Poor... Cheap...? I'm with Ed.

Sorry 893cv, the longevity of these bikes just don't support your statement. You may want to rethink or reword this.

Best of success.
Bill[/quote]

Bill, if you think the OEM ignition system design and OEM ignition system parts on your KZ650 are such outstanding bits, why did you "upgrade" to a Dyna ignition system, Dyna coils, and do the WG coil mod?

I think I'll stick with my origional statement and call a spade a spade. The OEM ignition system design is poor, and the OEM parts are cheep.

Its 2010, and I can do a LOT better than 1977 OEM.



Ride Well,
Jon

893cv wrote:

... Bill, if you think the OEM ignition system design and OEM ignition system parts on your KZ650 are such outstanding bits, why did you "upgrade" to a Dyna ignition system, Dyna coils, and do the WG coil mod?

I think I'll stick with my original statement and call a spade a spade. The OEM ignition system design is poor, and the OEM parts are cheap.

Its 2010, and I can do a LOT better than 1977 OEM.

Ride Well,
Jon

Jon, I did not say the bike does not represent the technology of its time or that 2010 does not have things to offer.

My bike works real well now with the mods I've added and I'm not taking them off. It probably worked real well the day it first came out from the dealer too... but I wasn't there to see that. I did see it needed help after the PO's and 30+ years.

I remember having a 1972 CB750-4 and riding west across Canada. Similar technology... no mods. Worked real well all the way to the Pacific. Ok, I burned out the original clutch climbing the Rockies with two-up, fairing and bags... but I chose to put that on the PO's and the mileage.

Jon, I just don't see and you have not explained your "Poor or Cheap" evaluation. If quality means "suitability to the given task" (as in ISO quality management) then I don't see how these bikes used poor/inadequate technology or cheap/inferior materials to produce a bike that did not meet the service objectives of Kawasaki or the KZ650 buyers. :huh: I just don't see it.

IMHO, the Dyna parts I added were Performance parts from 3 decades later (OEM Coil 10-12 Kv, Dyna Coil >30 Kv)... they improved the performance as promised. I think they would have done the same to any brand of bike off the production line in 1977.

Best of success,
Bill

The coil mod is required for:

1. Bikes left on thier side in a field for say... 19 years.
2. Persons with little electrical knowledge.
3. Just plain lazy basterds!

Ok, now this I can respect..... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

893cv wrote: "Its 2010, and I can do a LOT better than 1977 OEM."

I think now I understand your point of view. I will try to describe: You believe that the new ignition technology that has evolved after 33 years of progress makes the old ignition technology cheap and of poor design. Using that logic, today's technology will be cheap and of poor design 33 years from now. In fact, using your logic, the entire 1977 motocycle is cheap and of poor design compared to the current technology (think of current engines, brakes, fuel systems, frames, tires, etc. compared to 1977 technology) Given that, why do you own vintage bikes? You can certainly do a LOT better than 1977 OEM with modern machines. Ed

TeK9iNe wrote:

The coil mod is required for:

1. Bikes left on thier side in a field for say... 19 years.
2. Persons with little electrical knowledge.
3. Just plain lazy basterds!

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I'll be damned I fit two out of three

650ed wrote:

893cv wrote: "Its 2010, and I can do a LOT better than 1977 OEM."

I think now I understand your point of view. I will try to describe: You believe that the new ignition technology that has evolved after 33 years of progress makes the old ignition technology cheap and of poor design.

No,the ignition systems in these bikes were cheep and poorly designed right from the start. Dyna, Accell, Marteck, and others were making better ignitions for these bikes almost from day one. Aftermarket ignition systems are not "vanity" parts. People buy these systems because they work better, require less maintenance, and cost less then the OEM. A new stock 1980 KZ1000 ignition system is almost $900, if you could even find one. A new Dyna S system is $125! Dyna coils are about $150 with wires, and stock coils are $400 a pair.
Yes, you can make the stock OEM parts work,and even work work for years. Your bike is a nice example of a stock KZ.
But, the aftermarket parts are made to provide a higher level of performance, at a fraction of the cost of OEM.


Using that logic, today's technology will be cheap and of poor design 33 years from now. In fact, using your logic, the entire 1977 motocycle is cheap and of poor design compared to the current technology (think of current engines, brakes, fuel systems, frames, tires, etc. compared to 1977 technology)

No, I don't agree. The engines in the 903cc and 1015cc kawasakis are a brilliant and timeless example of motorcycle design. The parts of these motorcycles that KHI bought from OEM suppliers are not so good. The OEM ignition systems are the weakest link. Thats why aftermarket manufacturers have been able to sell many thousands ( maby even many hundreds of thousands) of better ignition systems for these bikes.
Kawasaki gave the ignition system contract to the lowest bidder.


Given that, why do you own vintage bikes?

My wife and I own 20 motorcycles at this time. Some of our bikes are newer, some older, some bigger, and some are smaller. I own my 2 KZ1000's because I like them, and I always wanted them. My 2 KZ's are not perfect, but I have the ability to address the weak links that I find in them.


You can certainly do a LOT better than 1977 OEM with modern machines. Ed

From a purly functional prospective you are 100% correct. My YZF600 can run away from any 70's motorcycle on the track,it handles better, it gets better gas milage, it requires a lot less maintenance and even goes longer on a set of tires, but it's not a KZ1000, thats why I have 2.

P.S. I've done WG's coil mod to my YZF too!

"P.S. I've done WG's coil mod to my YZF too!"...
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

And why did you do this... because of sooted sparkies?
Why not have it jetted better for that is the main reason owners tend to go this route...

Meaning, if you already had 13Vdc at your coils or whatever the Yami is specd at, what exactly did the mod do for you again.... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Arrrrrrrrrrrgggggggg... you guys kill me....

Have a flat tire, Ewwwwwwww do the mod.... Have steering wobbles, do the mod..... Have low compression, do the mod.... have an oilo leak, do the mod.....

The mod fixes everything... :pinch: :whistle:

3 HP on the dyno at its peak, over 2 MPG on the road, and better starting every time I push the button.

Nope, I think you missed the question...

If everything including your wiring was within spec, you already have battery voltage on the coils, how would you gain as mentioned for there would be no difference...

On the other hand, if you do have a difference (2 to 3Vdc) between battery voltage and after going through your switches and such to the coils, then added voltage indeed would place higher voltage on the coils no doubt... But what about the rest of your electrical system, it would still be at the voltage drop values...

As depicted in recent posting (Electrical theory) can;t say for the Yami due to unknown wiring and electrical but in the KZ wiring/electrical..... if the charging circuit and starter for that matter is down 2-3Vdc, how would your motor/turn start better...

If on Dyna EI... the power is derived from the rest of the circuit that was left intack so with a 2-3Vdc, hard to see how your mpg would increase, I would think it would be less...

Ah well, seems to have worked in your behalf, good for you....

I did the coil mod and I noticed a huge difference on my 650. I guess I could have spend many hours cleaning nasty old connectors, rebuilding switch housings and replacing wires; but adding a relay was a lot easier and has the same effect.


I guess I just don't get your point OMR, I mean if it makes the bike run better, and it is quick and easy (versus a time consuming and expensive re-wire) why not do it?

Many of the people riding these old bikes don't enjoy re-jetting carbs. I know I loath it, I missed out on two or three good rides last summer trying to get my plugs a nice tan color, and I was cussing the whole time. In the end the coil mod helped (not completely fixed yet, but helped).

and my last point, if the plugs are showing black because of a poor spark, why would you want to re-jet the carbs? The poor spark is what is causing the in-complete burn so it should be addressed.

EDIT: in my case jetting changes were needed because of pods and a pipe; but the coil mod also fixed my 9vts at the coils which caused the plugs to show a rich condition while the bike was actually running lean... when I did the mod I ended up with very white plugs. I guess however I co:blink: uld have just called off the rest of my summer riding to re-wire and clean....yeah thats why I own a motorcycle :blink:

The voltage drop between the battery and the coils with a new main switch, a new kill switch, and all conectors cleaned (I even installed a new main and ignition fuse) was right at 1/2 volt.

At just $12 for 3 HP, thats cheep power!

My dyno guy now installs power relays on almost every bike he tunes, even the newer stuff with stick coils.

I dont know why the gas milage improved, but I'll take it.

It would be interesting to see if the voltage is stable as the engine revs up.

I guess I just don't get your point OMR, I mean if it makes the bike run better, and it is quick and easy (versus a time consuming and expensive re-wire) why not do it?

You are correct, you missed the point... The rest of your electrical system is suffering if you truly noticed a huge difference. If the case was indeed you have a 2 to 3 Vdc or as some have reported, worse voltage drops across these terminations/switches...

Meaning that same voltage coming out of the ignition switch is the same voltage that feeds back into your REGULATOR thus charging system... Not to mention all your lights.... If EI ignition this is also the same low voltage being applied...

Now truly, I don't care one way or another what you guys do with your KZ's... If this was good enough for ya, cool with me...

Same time on the technical side of things, when others ask advice and this is the cure all... Naw, come on now
for that would be a non wise way to go about it...

Especially if they had a large enough voltage drops occurring due to partially shorted to ground components.
Pretty much, just a matter of time when someone gets stranded and blames these old electrical systems, these KZ's are junk, cheap Japanese shiza etc....

If your truly interested, go here for I started another posting on this subject...

kzrider.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&...ew&catid=4&id=343965

OMR












We've had a slew of members on this site alone that reported no difference where their problems where still shiza...