Choke or lack of it

  • MauserXR
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Choke or lack of it

15 Jan 2025 12:45
#907924
Hi guys popped out today for a quick ride, however she wouldn’t start very well as mentioned on my other post for some strange reason the choke / enricher doesn’t seem to function as it did before. Normally I start her on choke and she screams her nuts off I lower the choke and she settles down then after a minute the rev’s pick-up again and I have to close it down some more. Now she runs perfect plugs are great and no misfire etc, but operating the choke from cold only raises the tick over very slightly? I can ride her away but it’s taking many goes to get her to actually startup ?
Pilots are 1 size up and I found 3 out of the 4 gaskets between the headers and balance pipe were missing, the electronic ignition seems spot on.
Why have I lost the chokes operation ? I cannot believe all 4 plungers have failed ?
 
KZ650 ~ XR650R ~ KH400 ~ RT2-360

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  • Warren3200gt
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Re: Choke or lack of it

15 Jan 2025 13:20
#907928
Assuming vm carbs?
Are the lifters loose on the shaft and not lifting the plungers completely? 
Are the lifter forks bent downwards and not lifting the plungers completely?
Have you had the carbs off for cleaning and you've refitted the lifters upside down? 
The lifters are soft metal and it doesn't take much to bend the arms. 

Z1000J2 somewhat modified!

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  • Nessism
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Re: Choke or lack of it

15 Jan 2025 13:29
#907929
Choke pickup tube, which draws fuel from the float valve and transports it to choke plunger cavity could be plugged up.

And/or, the passage in the float bowl, into which the choke pickup tube resides, could be plugged.

Both of these passage blocks are quite common.

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Re: Choke or lack of it

15 Jan 2025 14:34
#907933
 Carbs have been off several times and are spotless inside the plungers again all move freely, I wouldn’t be wasting your time without checking the obvious. I just cannot understand what’s changed to affect all 4 cylinders ? It’s as if the supply to the enrichers is blocked but they are not?
I’ll have another look tomorrow morning but what am I looking for lol



 
KZ650 ~ XR650R ~ KH400 ~ RT2-360

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  • hardrockminer
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Re: Choke or lack of it

16 Jan 2025 04:15
#907942
Why did you increase your pilot jets?  How many turns out are your pilot air screws?
I have several restored bikes along with a 2006 Goldwing with a sidecar. My wife has a 2019 Suzuki DR 650 for on and off road.

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Re: Choke or lack of it

16 Jan 2025 04:49
#907944
The bike was taking 10 minutes to warm up before I could ride her without either her bogging down or needing choke, it stated somewhere the US bikes were set lean for emissions and someone mentioned increasing the pilot jets to improve it; hence I went 1 size bigger. Since then I have resolved a few other problems and she runs great now.
The pilot screws were to far out, I might have been thinking about my KH400 when setting there...1-3/4 out lol....time will tell the workshop book says 3/4 + or - 1/8 turn.
 
KZ650 ~ XR650R ~ KH400 ~ RT2-360

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Re: Choke or lack of it

16 Jan 2025 07:37
#907949
Got the 3/4 turn from here ?
 
KZ650 ~ XR650R ~ KH400 ~ RT2-360

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  • Warren3200gt
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Re: Choke or lack of it

16 Jan 2025 09:41 - 16 Jan 2025 09:54
#907952
3/4 out is correct for Fuel screws, under the bowl cylinder side of the slide. Part 6 in your diagram. 
1 3/8 out is correct for Airscrews on the carb side airbox inlet side of the slide. 
No16 on your pic is an airscrew or a plug not a fuel screw.
VM carbs came with either fuel screws, air screws or both. Which do you have? 

Z1000J2 somewhat modified!

Last edit: 16 Jan 2025 09:54 by Warren3200gt.

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Re: Choke or lack of it

16 Jan 2025 11:51
#907957
Here are mine :)
 
KZ650 ~ XR650R ~ KH400 ~ RT2-360

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Re: Choke or lack of it

16 Jan 2025 13:02 - 16 Jan 2025 13:14
#907959
You have pilot airscrew carbs. Those should be set at 1 & 3/8 out from lightly seated. Then once the engine is warm colour tuned for best mixture.
"IF" you have those set at 3/8 out then you have a rich pilot mixture. Add choke to that and it's probably too rich to fire giving the impression you choke isn't working. 
Additionally you have the vac tap pipe open. This must be plugged unless it's connected to the fuel tap or it'll just draw air into carb 2  and no fuel will be drawn through the pilot circuit as there will be no vacuum in the carb throat. 
 
​​​​​​Set them to 1 3/8 out. 
With a cold engine use full choke, absolutely NO throttle input, hit the start button and it should fire and rev high at about 3.5k. Feather the choke closed until it's running at about 1.8 - 2k rpm. After about 30 seconds you should be able to shut the choke completely. 

Z1000J2 somewhat modified!

Last edit: 16 Jan 2025 13:14 by Warren3200gt.
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  • MauserXR
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Re: Choke or lack of it

16 Jan 2025 13:27
#907960
Vacuum pipe was only open as tank was off, I know what you mean about running with it open; number 2 just doesn’t work lol.
I’ve got the next size up pilots fitted 17’s if the 1-3/8 out doesn’t cure the choke and starting problems would this suggest dripping back to the original 15’s ?
I really appreciate the info and advice I don’t mind pulling the carbs again if needed .
 
KZ650 ~ XR650R ~ KH400 ~ RT2-360

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  • Warren3200gt
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Re: Choke or lack of it

16 Jan 2025 13:33 - 16 Jan 2025 13:36
#907961
Your running stock airbox so pilots should be 15. Mains should be 102.5. Needle should be slot 4 from the top.
Your testing with open carbs not drawing air through the air box. It'll run slightly weak but it won't stop it running.
Where are you in the UK? I'm by Brands Hatch Kent. Get lots of local zeds brought to me to sort out. 

Z1000J2 somewhat modified!

Last edit: 16 Jan 2025 13:36 by Warren3200gt.

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