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KZ200 carburettor issue 22 Oct 2020 05:04 #837455

  • Pagala
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Hey guys, it's about my KZ200 (1977) project. I've put it all back together minus the tank and side panels and lights.
Anxious to check that it still works and I haven't done anything stupid, I tried to start it up. It didn't work. It has a fully charged new battery, clean contacts and everything.

I could get it to start and tick over nicely with a blast of carb cleaner spray through the air intake.

Obvious carb problem, right? Well, it wasn't there before it came apart. So a bit of dirt in the passages, perhaps. Cleaned out the jets and passages - made no difference.
There was something I neglected in the carburettor. That is, the float level isn't set and the float needle hasn't been tested. I haven't even been able to check that the float actually floats. This is all because the pin that holds the float to the carb body is seized with a bad case of corrosion and I can't get it out.

I was wondering, and I know this has been asked before on this forum (I've searched), but has anyone ever worked out a replacement Chinese carb for this bike? The original carb is Keihin PW26. Keihin PZ26 wouldn't work, because the outlet end of the carb has to be a spigot that pushes into the rubber manifold on the side of the engine. A replacement original PW26 would cost me about £150-£200. A carb rebuild kit for my current carb would cost me £35, but it's no good if I can't remove the float, or if I break it while trying. But Chinese carbs are dirt cheap.

Thanks
1̶9̶8̶3̶ ̶K̶a̶w̶a̶s̶a̶k̶i̶ ̶G̶T̶5̶5̶0̶ ̶(̶U̶K̶-̶o̶n̶l̶y̶ ̶m̶o̶d̶e̶l̶)̶,̶ ̶a̶l̶s̶o̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶n̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶Z̶5̶5̶0̶ ̶G̶1̶,̶ ̶r̶e̶g̶i̶s̶t̶e̶r̶e̶d̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶1̶9̶8̶4̶.̶
1981 Kawasaki Z440 (KZ440C1)

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Last edit: by Pagala.

KZ200 carburettor issue 22 Oct 2020 05:19 #837456

  • hardrockminer
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Don't give up on your carb so easily. Take your carb to a machinist who can remove the float pin.
I have several restored bikes along with a 2006 Goldwing with a sidecar. My wife has a 2019 Suzuki DR 650 for on and off road.

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KZ200 carburettor issue 22 Oct 2020 06:25 #837459

  • 650ed
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hardrockminer wrote: Don't give up on your carb so easily. Take your carb to a machinist who can remove the float pin.


Exactly! I am always amazed at the number of folks who will swap in crap parts rather than having a pro take simple steps to help them correct problems the original parts may have. Ed
1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)

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KZ200 carburettor issue 22 Oct 2020 06:52 #837464

  • gd4now
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I think it is dependent upon what is causing the pin to be stuck. If it is due to fuel residue try heat from a heat gun or hair drier.
1977 KZ650 B1
Pods and Denco header


This is my Z

OLD KAW OWNERS SMILE ALOT

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KZ200 carburettor issue 22 Oct 2020 09:02 #837478

  • Pagala
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No eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationThanks, what I'll try and do is save this carb, then.

By the strangest coincidence (or just someone very astute keeping an eye out) this has appeared for sale on Ebay:


This is a cheap dismantled carb, and if the worse comes to the worst I could buy it, and using these bits I could put my carb back together with a bit of wire as a new float pin.

I hear what you're saying about using the services of pros. Tbh it's not going to happen, as I'm against that sort of thing. A project is something I like to do everything on myself, not just pull out my wallet. I would try every other solution, and if I ever encountered any issue that required the services of a pro machinist or workshop, I would simply sell the project or the relevant part. What's the difference between buying a replacement carb and paying a pro, you may ask. Well, it makes a difference to me, because I would prefer not to support that sort of business. To cut a long story short, I don't think they respect hobbyists and amateurs - their habits, manners and customs are all different from dabblers like me, and I don't want to encourage the propitiation of that sort of rough and ready (and rude) culture and support those particular local businesses in the UK. I appreciate that things may be different in America, but generally, people involved in bikes here are an unfriendly sort. I keep my distance and don't support them.
1̶9̶8̶3̶ ̶K̶a̶w̶a̶s̶a̶k̶i̶ ̶G̶T̶5̶5̶0̶ ̶(̶U̶K̶-̶o̶n̶l̶y̶ ̶m̶o̶d̶e̶l̶)̶,̶ ̶a̶l̶s̶o̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶n̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶Z̶5̶5̶0̶ ̶G̶1̶,̶ ̶r̶e̶g̶i̶s̶t̶e̶r̶e̶d̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶1̶9̶8̶4̶.̶
1981 Kawasaki Z440 (KZ440C1)

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KZ200 carburettor issue 22 Oct 2020 09:10 #837480

  • 650ed
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I'm sure the folks in China who make copies of the real, original carbs are all wonderful folks. Ed

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)

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KZ200 carburettor issue 22 Oct 2020 14:41 #837507

  • hardrockminer
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650ed wrote: I'm sure the folks in China who make copies of the real, original carbs are all wonderful folks. Ed

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


AHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Pagala, it sounds to me like you're a person of principle. Good on you! Since you've gone that far why not simply avoid any online assistance as well? After all, using someone else's knowledge isn't far removed from using their skills.

Very few people have the entire range of skills necessary to operate and maintain a motorcycle. Last week I had a broken stud in an engine case. After trying a couple of simple things I took it to someone who extracts studs all the time. Why? Because I didn't want to ruin the case. Believe me, there's no shame in getting an expert to do work for you. Here in Canada I've never encountered an unfriendly machinist....usually they're bike enthusiasts themselves and appreciate yakking on a common interest. But each to his own....it's your ball and your bat.
I have several restored bikes along with a 2006 Goldwing with a sidecar. My wife has a 2019 Suzuki DR 650 for on and off road.

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KZ200 carburettor issue 22 Oct 2020 16:55 #837513

  • Pagala
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hardrockminer wrote: Pagala, it sounds to me like you're a person of principle. Good on you! Since you've gone that far why not simply avoid any online assistance as well? After all, using someone else's knowledge isn't far removed from using their skills.


We're getting a bit off-topic here, but there's definitely a cultural difference between the USA, Canada and the UK. These countries are all very different. I remember a few years ago, when I used to go to these restaurants selling a certain type of food. They had collection boxes in them for some strange organisations - I paid them no mind and didn't care. Then, when the Sept 11 thing happened, that put an end to my visits to those places. Don't get me wrong - I love the food. But I don't give money - which is real sustenance - to people who don't like me.

In the UK there's a lot of reverse snobbery. You walk into a machine shop here and there's a lot of disrespectful joking, impoliteness and crude behaviour everywhere. A lot of bigotry, casual violence, etc. among that sort. I suppose you might think of them as the equivalent of good old boys, or something. But I don't like 'em, I don't tolerate 'em and I let their olde worlde businesses run their course. These are the sort of guys who could buy an Omega Seamaster and make you want to buy a Casio, just to dissociate yourself from them. I'd actually prefer to support Chinese knockoffs. They're like this guy, on steroids:




Gotta say, I do appreciate this forum, for its polite and respectful tone and behaviour, and lack of judgmentalism. That's what attracted me to this place.
But I don't feel I have much in common with motorcycle enthusiasts, per se. They live for oneupmanship, they're competitive over the most trivial things, and they just come across to me (here in the UK) as obsessed with coming across as if they're from the pits, and have made good, and now know everything about everything. I value completely different things from them. People I know with 8, 9, 10 rental properties in their portfolio still drive an old Toyota and try to be the first in line for some discount at Aldi/Lidl. Motorcyclists, machinists, welders, mech engineers, etc.... I just don't get them so I avoid. They can flash the cash and eat a bacon sarnie or whatever, but it's not what I'm into. Hope this makes things clear.
1̶9̶8̶3̶ ̶K̶a̶w̶a̶s̶a̶k̶i̶ ̶G̶T̶5̶5̶0̶ ̶(̶U̶K̶-̶o̶n̶l̶y̶ ̶m̶o̶d̶e̶l̶)̶,̶ ̶a̶l̶s̶o̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶n̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶Z̶5̶5̶0̶ ̶G̶1̶,̶ ̶r̶e̶g̶i̶s̶t̶e̶r̶e̶d̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶1̶9̶8̶4̶.̶
1981 Kawasaki Z440 (KZ440C1)

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Last edit: by Pagala.

KZ200 carburettor issue 22 Oct 2020 17:23 #837514

  • Nessism
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Clear as mud.

I've got a little hobby where I restore old carbs from the KZ era and resell them for a little "mad money" spending cash. Key thing I've learned is that short cuts are long cuts when it comes to carbs.

When I get a set I take them apart 100% and fully clean all the parts, most in carb dip since this clears the inner passages in the carb bodies and so forth. Most guys think that taking off the float bowl and spraying some Gumout though the carbs and installing "carb kits" constitutes a rebuild but they are sadly wrong.

Do the job right the first time and you are done. Short cut and you will be "rebuilding" again and again.

What I think the brethren here are suggesting is that you just need to do a proper job with your existing carb and all will be well. It's extremely rate that someone needs a "new" carb because their original is beyond repair.

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KZ200 carburettor issue 22 Oct 2020 17:35 #837515

  • Pagala
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In other words, you doubt what I said about the float pin being seized and not coming out.

You also more or less say that I'm the sort of guy who does a hack job, unlike you, who is really thorough.

On this occasion, you don't have my thanks. However, I would point out that, as per my previous posts, I would much rather be the guy to sponsor a respectful and polite business enterprise on the other side of the world than descend to paying for condescension.
1̶9̶8̶3̶ ̶K̶a̶w̶a̶s̶a̶k̶i̶ ̶G̶T̶5̶5̶0̶ ̶(̶U̶K̶-̶o̶n̶l̶y̶ ̶m̶o̶d̶e̶l̶)̶,̶ ̶a̶l̶s̶o̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶n̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶Z̶5̶5̶0̶ ̶G̶1̶,̶ ̶r̶e̶g̶i̶s̶t̶e̶r̶e̶d̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶1̶9̶8̶4̶.̶
1981 Kawasaki Z440 (KZ440C1)

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Last edit: by Pagala.

KZ200 carburettor issue 22 Oct 2020 17:58 #837517

  • Nessism
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Pagala wrote: In other words, you doubt what I said about the float pin being seized and not coming out.

You also more or less say that I'm the sort of guy who does a hack job, unlike you, who is really thorough.

On this occasion, you don't have my thanks. However, I would point out that, as per my previous posts, I would much rather be the guy to sponsor a respectful and polite business enterprise on the other side of the world than descend to paying for condescension.


Well, it certainly sounds like you didn't do a very good job. If I was redoing a set of carbs and the "float pin was seized" I'd cut it off and carefully drill out the nubs. You can't clean the float valve properly without removing the float so that's a hard stop right there until you find a solution.

Oh, and here is the carb rebuild tutorial I wrote. I'm not sure how many similarities there are with your carb but it should give you an idea of how to do a proper and complete rebuild.

zeus.mtsac.edu/~cliff/storage/gs/Mikuni_...Rebuild_Tutorial.pdf

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Last edit: by Nessism.

KZ200 carburettor issue 22 Oct 2020 18:06 #837518

  • Pagala
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"Well, it certainly sounds like you didn't do a very good job. If I was redoing a set of carbs and the "float pin was seized" I'd cut it off and carefully drill out the nubs. You can't clean the float valve properly without removing the float so that's a hard stop right there until you find a solution."

To be fair, you didn't do a great job reading my post before offering your advice.

To sum up: I already stated what I was not able to check.
Someone suggested getting a machinist to drill it out. I said no, and explained why.
You then came up and told me to not seek a Chinese carb but to stick with this magical bit of 44-year-old metal that doesn't work.

I tell you I don't buy into or respect condescension, and you offer me your Mikuni carb rebuild guide. I would find myself put in my place, but for the fact you are self-published and are probably no more qualified or experienced than me. I've cleaned carbs LOTS of times before. It's just that I prefer the £14 Chinese solution to drilling out holes to revive a 44-year old crusty carb. THAT, let us be clear, is our bone of contention. What you think is your special skill is, to me, worth £14, if I can find out which model of Chinese carb can fit.
1̶9̶8̶3̶ ̶K̶a̶w̶a̶s̶a̶k̶i̶ ̶G̶T̶5̶5̶0̶ ̶(̶U̶K̶-̶o̶n̶l̶y̶ ̶m̶o̶d̶e̶l̶)̶,̶ ̶a̶l̶s̶o̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶n̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶Z̶5̶5̶0̶ ̶G̶1̶,̶ ̶r̶e̶g̶i̶s̶t̶e̶r̶e̶d̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶1̶9̶8̶4̶.̶
1981 Kawasaki Z440 (KZ440C1)

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