High idle

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07 Mar 2016 15:41 #714343 by 650ed
Replied by 650ed on topic High idle
It seems very unlikely that dirty carbs are causing the symptom you describe. I saw that you checked the carb holders, but I respectfully suggest you check them again using the procedure outlined below. If you do that and the idle still hangs, check and lube the advancer as swest suggested. If after that you still have the high idle problem I suggest you disconnect the throttle cables at the carbs, start the bike. give it some revs and see if the rpms come down properly. If so, a cable is sticking. Ed

Checking the carb holders for leaks. They will eventually develop tiny cracks in the mating surfaces between the holders and the cylinder head that can cause them to leak at idle. These cracks cannot be seen with the carb holders in place. I suggest you try the following. Get the engine warmed up and temporarily set the idle as low as possible without killing the engine (lower than 900 rpm if possible). The lower the better because with the idle very low the slides are nearly shut and the vacuum inside the carb holders is at its highest. Then spray carb cleaner around the carb holders, especially where they mate with the cylinder head and where the carbs attach to them. Carb cleaner works best for this test as it doesn't leave an oily mess with WD40 or evaporate so quickly that it is not drawn into the leaks as can happen with propane or starting fluid (ether). If the engine dies or reacts to the carb cleaner, you need to replace the carb holders. Carb holder leak related problems are noticeable at idle but generally don't have much impact when riding because the throttle is open. If you find you need to replace the carb holders soak the screws with Kroil for a couple days before attempting to remove them, and use JIS standard, NOT Phillips, screwdriver bits, and this will greatly improve the odds that you will not break or strip a carb holder fastener as so many have done. Let me know if you need info on JIS bits, I have a good link for making your own at no cost.

1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)
The following user(s) said Thank You: SWest

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07 Mar 2016 20:00 #714412 by jakedude
Replied by jakedude on topic High idle

Bama704 wrote: When I blip the throttle the rpms will take a few seconds to come back down at 2-3k. I was able to spray WD40 with no change in rpm's. Do yall think the next step is to take the carbs off, clean the jets with small wire and blow the passage ways with carb spray?

First I would follow swest's advice and check the advancer.

It still sounds like your pilot screws are too rich to me. I would turn them all the way in but just lightly finger tight while counting the number of turns on each carb. Write the number of turns for each carb down as you do this. If they are not all the same, take an average, and back them all out to that average number of turns. Then start the bike and let it warm all the way up with a box fan blowing on the engine so it doesn't over heat. If it starts missing when warm, start turning the pilot screws in. Start with one turn in on each carb. Then blip the throttle. The RPM should return quickly to idle. If the RPM does not return quickly idle, screw them all in an equal amount again and blip the throttle again. If you turn them in two far, when you blip the throttle the RPM will drop quickly and then drop below idle and then return to idle or perhaps die. If that happens back them all out an equal amount a bit. If you don't like the way it runs then, well you counted the number of turns for each screw and wrote them down at the start so you can always return the carbs back to their original setting.

My opinion for what it is worth.

Nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect.

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08 Mar 2016 06:58 - 08 Mar 2016 06:58 #714446 by Kidkawie
Replied by Kidkawie on topic High idle

Bama704 wrote: When I blip the throttle the rpms will take a few seconds to come back down at 2-3k. I was able to spray WD40 with no change in rpm's. Do yall think the next step is to take the carbs off, clean the jets with small wire and blow the passage ways with carb spray?


Clean/lube/adjust the throttle cables.

Clean/lube the advancer.

Make sure you hear a distinctive "snap" when you release the throttle and verify the throttle is closing all the way not being hung up by the cables.

Check/clean throttle tube itself. Make sure it operates smoothly and the inside of the grip is not dragging on the end of the handlebar.

1975 Z1 900
1994 KX250 Supermoto
2004 KX125
Last edit: 08 Mar 2016 06:58 by Kidkawie.

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08 Mar 2016 07:55 - 08 Mar 2016 08:01 #714460 by car5car
Replied by car5car on topic High idle
Vacuum leak before throttle, I had a problem like that. There was some hole in one of carbs, I don't remember details. Hole was toward engine but vacuum was going before throttle.

96 Yamaha Royal Star
82 Yamaha Virago 920
Last edit: 08 Mar 2016 08:01 by car5car.

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11 Mar 2016 11:36 #714935 by Bama704
Replied by Bama704 on topic High idle
I got the bike warmed up and the rpm's settled at 2k. I took carb cleaner and sprayed it over and around the carb holders, making sure to spray where they mate with the cylinder head. No change in any way. Now I removed the points and condenser cover to get to the advancer. I cleaned and lubed the advancer as well as lubed the throttle cables. No change. I also removed the throttle cables from the carb to blip the throttle and the rpm's still hung up.

At a loss as to why I can't get my idle below 2k...

1977 KZ900
Carbs are late model 1975 28mm

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11 Mar 2016 11:42 #714936 by Nessism
Replied by Nessism on topic High idle
Two things to try: Vacuum sync the carbs and richen up the idle mixture

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11 Mar 2016 11:44 #714937 by Kidkawie
Replied by Kidkawie on topic High idle
With the cables removed from the carb and the idle adjuster backed out, can you push down on the throttle linkage to reduce rpms?

1975 Z1 900
1994 KX250 Supermoto
2004 KX125

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11 Mar 2016 13:21 #714953 by Bama704
Replied by Bama704 on topic High idle

Nessism wrote: Two things to try: Vacuum sync the carbs and richen up the idle mixture


I tried to vaccum sync the carbs with this gage attached, I bought from z1 enterprises a while ago. The problem I had when doing so, was not being able to get the needles to settle down, they were jumping all over the place, even though the bike would idle normal then. When you say richen up the idle mixture, do you mean to unscrew my air screws more?

Kidkawie, not sure I know what you mean by the throttle linkage

1977 KZ900
Carbs are late model 1975 28mm
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  • SWest
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  • 10 22 2014
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11 Mar 2016 13:26 #714954 by SWest
Replied by SWest on topic High idle
When was the last valve adjustment?
Steve

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11 Mar 2016 13:35 #714955 by Bama704
Replied by Bama704 on topic High idle
Not sure if the PO did one or not. I have not done one and have gone from 13400, to 13900 miles on it. Would that be your next move Steve?

1977 KZ900
Carbs are late model 1975 28mm

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  • SWest
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  • Sustaining Member
  • 10 22 2014
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11 Mar 2016 13:54 #714957 by SWest
Replied by SWest on topic High idle
I'd check the valves. By the gauges jumping around made me think of it. Guys don't want to do it and sell the bike when there's trouble.
Steve

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11 Mar 2016 14:36 #714964 by Kidkawie
Replied by Kidkawie on topic High idle
Throttle linkage- the piece the cables connect to on the carbs. Push on that.

1975 Z1 900
1994 KX250 Supermoto
2004 KX125

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