Make pods have the performance as an airbox?

Can you make a pod-like setup with the same air resistance and physics as the original airbox? I mean, can we have the convenience of pods with the stable performance of the original jetting? What if you experimented with difference materials, shapes, and venting designs. Are the physics impossible? If this has been discussed, please point me to the source. I'm not so interested in doing it as much as knowing if it can be done.

My bike with pods performs every bit as smooth as my bikes with airboxes. I've also done it on CV carbs. So it can be done, even with needles that are not ideally shaped, you can compensate with the jets to get a smooth throttle response across the range, and get max power at WOT. The tradeoff may be the low end grunt won't be the same. It just requires more throttle at low speed (something you will do without even noticing, unless you really pay attention or have a passenger).

The performance characteristics won't be the same because there is no way to simulate a large volume of air in an enclosed space with a set of pods (ie. air having mass and momentum... those physics are probably impossible to replicate with a simple pod), but the overall smoothness can be matched and the peak horsepower may even be higher since you may be breathing more air at WOT. But the airboxes, in my experience, require a little less effort to drive slowly since the torque at low RPMs seems better, especially if you are riding a passenger. But the high end rush is more exhilarating with pods.

It's more of a question of what you are doing with the bike, as to whether you want to go down the long road of rejetting. It's probably not a thing a novice should jump into. It takes some epxerience in reading plugs, exhaust color, and all of the other performance indicators... surging etc., and knowing where the slide position will be on a CV at a given RPM and throttle position.

richrand wrote: Can you make a pod-like setup with the same air resistance and physics as the original airbox? I mean, can we have the convenience of pods with the stable performance of the original jetting? What if you experimented with difference materials, shapes, and venting designs. Are the physics impossible? If this has been discussed, please point me to the source. I'm not so interested in doing it as much as knowing if it can be done.

...I believe so. Shove the pods over the end of velocity stacks.

...in my opinion, it's not the box, it's removing the boots from the equation that's the biggest problem. The boots are built in velocity stacks. Engineered and designed to help channel air into the carburetors. Straight, into the carburetor and uninterrupted by any outside source! OK, take them away and put on pods. Now the carbs are scavenging from directly around the mouth of the carburetor, as well as scavenging the air from the carburetor, or carburetors directly next to them. Air swirling every which way instead of in a nice straight rushing stream of air.

...think about it. Try a little experiment. Pull the filter from your stock air box. You are now running with velocity stacks and no filter. Run it and see what difference it makes. Now, pull the box completely, along with the rubbers. Any difference? You bet.

...lets hear from someone who has jetted both pods and stacks. I've done both and stacks have always been easier to jet. I believe there's a big advantage to pulling air through a venturi and then into a carburetor, when compared to pulling air from all around the open throat of a carburetor. The venturi increases the flow and speed of the air. Mild supercharging, if you will. While drawing air from all around a pod is doing nothing but causing air to buffet around inside the pod and carb while making its way into the combustion chamber.

...call me KraZy, that is my name. :whistle: But, that's my opinion and experience.

KraZyRIDER, that was really well thought out and explained. I think you're exactly right.

ILoveNasacar wrote: KraZyRIDER, that was really well thought out and explained. I think you're exactly right.

...sooooo, you're saying I'm right on Target??? :side:



...I Love NASaCAR, too!

My solution was adding a Henry Abe Bread box. I do agree with the velocity stack, but more air always means more fuel needed. I believe cross wind on the pods is also an issue. Here is a post I started:

kzrider.com/forum/3-carburetor/532117-po...leaner-the-bread-box

kaw-a-holic wrote: My solution was adding a Henry Abe Bread box. I do agree with the velocity stack, but more air always means more fuel needed. I believe cross wind on the pods is also an issue. Here is a post I started:

kzrider.com/forum/3-carburetor/532117-po...leaner-the-bread-box

...definitely better than just pods, no doubt.

Yes, longer intake tract before the carbs will make a difference, but the box does something as well. My buddy's KZ550 came with stock jetting and stock exhaust, but the airbox was cut open to expose the air filter. The filter was still in place, and so were the airbox boots, but the walls before the filter and the back of the aribox were gone. The bike was running excessively lean. So airbox boots, alone, don't explain all of the effects of having an airbox in place.

Hahaha. What is that? a fairing? I'm glad I'm not the only fan here on earth that enjoys Nasacar.

loudhvx wrote: Yes, longer intake tract before the carbs will make a difference, but the box does something as well. My buddy's KZ550 came with stock jetting and stock exhaust, but the airbox was cut open to expose the air filter. The filter was still in place, and so were the airbox boots, but the walls before the filter and the back of the aribox were gone. The bike was running excessively lean. So airbox boots, alone, don't explain all of the effects of having an airbox in place.

...you missed the point. The tubes make it easier to jet. The tubes with a cut up box, would still make it easier to jet. Much easier than with pods alone.

ILoveNasacar wrote: Hahaha. What is that? a fairing? I'm glad I'm not the only fan here on earth that enjoys Nasacar.

...not a fairing, the left rear quarter panel from the #40 Target/HALO3 Dodge Avenger that raced in the Dover 400 Nextel Cup Series at Dover International Speedway back in 2007.

KraZyRIDER wrote:

loudhvx wrote: Yes, longer intake tract before the carbs will make a difference, but the box does something as well. My buddy's KZ550 came with stock jetting and stock exhaust, but the airbox was cut open to expose the air filter. The filter was still in place, and so were the airbox boots, but the walls before the filter and the back of the aribox were gone. The bike was running excessively lean. So airbox boots, alone, don't explain all of the effects of having an airbox in place.

...you missed the point. The tubes make it easier to jet. The tubes with a cut up box, would still make it easier to jet. Much easier than with pods alone.

Ok, but I'm not sure what you mean by "easier to jet".
It was not any more difficult to jet with pods than with the airbox (on manual slide carbs) when changing exhaust. But maybe I just got lucky a bunch of times.

CV carbs definitely take more trials before it turns out right. And a wideband O2 sensor makes it easier to jet since you have a quantified value everytime you make a change. But having the airbox did not make jetting for exhaust changes any easier, that I noticed.

Also, inside the airbox, the boots have cups that take air from the central filter location. That is, the air for the outside carbs come directly across the paths of the inside carbs. If anything, the airbox is much worse if we are worried about one carb scavenging air another carb.

But I know that crosswind is an issue (as verified by the wideband), but one that can be adjusted for with a little extra jetting in the cruising range. By cruising at an AFR around 13 instead of 14, you won't really feel the crosswind making a difference. Even at 14, you might only notice the surging on cold days. On hot days, I've been able to cruise smoothly at over 14.5 AFR.

It would be interesting to put stacks on with a wideband for comparison to pods alone and see what happens. Around here, I won't be running without some sort of filter though. There's always someone cutting concrete.