KZ750 Four Cam Install Help

Wookie58 wrote:

if you poke your finger in the tensioner hole (carefully) to apply pressure to the chain and rotate manually does it still make a noise ? (this should prove or eliminate the tensioner as the source of the noise)

You beat me to it. That was my next thing to try. Will pull the tensioner body off and try it. 

Wookie58 wrote:

if you poke your finger in the tensioner hole (carefully) to apply pressure to the chain and rotate manually does it still make a noise ? (this should prove or eliminate the tensioner as the source of the noise)

Ok, so over lunch I tried this. With the auto-tensioner completely removed I put my finger in and applied some pressure to the tensioner. I attempted to hand crank the engine clockwise. During the cranking I got to a point where the tensioner pushed back against my finger. I could not counteract the force against my finger at all. I continued to crank with my finger applying pressure. The tensioner eventually gave and went back to the initial location with my finger pressure from when I started. I continued to crank a couple more time with the tensioner doing the same thing. its almost like the chain has kink in it or something, but no kink is seen after I cranked a couple times. Could it be that after setting up the timing I left slack that I am hitting that the tensioner is not able to take up? I am so so puzzled by all this.

That doesn't sound right - is there and sideways movement or rotational movement in the guide blade or does it only move forward s and backwards

Wookie58 wrote:

That doesn't sound right - is there and sideways movement or rotational movement in the guide blade or does it only move forward s and backwards

From what I could tell it was only moving forward and backward as would be expected.

bluejacobs wrote:

Are any parts locked on your tensioner or not moving properly? 

Nothing binding. I pulled the tensioner apart and cleaned everything, added new grease and reassembled.

I would suggest you go back to the beginning and re-check your cam timing, with the plugs out it should turn smoothly and easily. It sounds like at least one cam is out and it’s loading up against a valve. Operating the guide with your finger should simply take the slack out of the chain (it’s the front run of the chain that should be under load) I assume when you say you are rotating the motor clockwise that you are turning it from the ignition side of the crank?

Wookie58 wrote:

I would suggest you go back to the beginning and re-check your cam timing, with the plugs out it should turn smoothly and easily. It sounds like at least one cam is out and it’s loading up against a valve. Operating the guide with your finger should simply take the slack out of the chain (it’s the front run of the chain that should be under load) I assume when you say you are rotating the motor clockwise that you are turning it from the ignition side of the crank?

Thanks @Wookie58. Appreciate all your responses so far and everyone else as well. So I just came in from the garage after pulling the cams....again.....and resetting up the timing. I took pictures so people see what I did and where I had the various marks after finishing. No tensioner installed at all.

Timing Mark


Exhaust Side:


Intake Side

 

Can you post a pick "straight on" from the right where we can see both cam sprockets (chain looks a bit slack between the cams to me - I know there is a buffer in the cover)

So, I just managed to watch your video on page 1 - I have seen this "tight-loose-tight" scenario on the chain between the cams before on a diesel jaguar (this was being caused by slightly bent valve stems)
In the first instance re-set the timing (the below pic may help) then as Nessism said, re-install the tensioner with the cover off and rotate the engine 2 full rotations - now re-check the timing and if happy remove the tensioner - re-fit the cover then re-install the tensioner. If the chain is still kicking between the cams the I suspect you have a bent valve or two

Wookie58 wrote:

Can you post a pick "straight on" from the right where we can see both cam sprockets (chain looks a bit slack between the cams to me - I know there is a buffer in the cover)

How would the valves got bent? I have only been hand cranking since I have checked the valve clearances and changed shims. If it is bent valves I might look at parting out the bike ($1,000 in so far) as I am not going down that path, I just don't have it in me.

Both Cams

the chain on the exhaust is 1 pin out, remove cams & lift chain up to keep on crank sprocket then turn over 1 complete turn then exhaust mark should align between cam chain plates then recount pins & fit inlet cam you will never get everything to line up as in manual but if pin count correct good to go. when you turn motor over with cambox removed you must press down on cam chain between cams to keep the slack otherwise you cannot refit cambox cover correctly only after fitting the cambox do you fit tensioner then turn motor over to get the tensioner to sort the correct tension on cam chain & if you stop motor at 1/4 T on the timing mark then remove cambox you will see just how much droop there is on the camchain when the cambox cover is fitted.
good luck

Wookie58 wrote:

So, I just managed to watch your video on page 1 - I have seen this "tight-loose-tight" scenario on the chain between the cams before on a diesel jaguar (this was being caused by slightly bent valve stems)
In the first instance re-set the timing (the below pic may help) then as Nessism said, re-install the tensioner with the cover off and rotate the engine 2 full rotations - now re-check the timing and if happy remove the tensioner - re-fit the cover then re-install the tensioner. If the chain is still kicking between the cams the I suspect you have a bent valve or two

I am thinking that maybe the timing mark was shifting a bit when I was trying to get the timing right. This time around I had the tick mark next to the "T" perfectly inline this time. I then made sure when aligning the exhaust cam to not pull as hard as I was to prevent the crank from moving. I then moved to the intake cam doing the same. Counted the links a few times. Reverified that the crank had not moved off the "T" tick mark. All good. Reinstalled the cam caps starting with #2 and #3 then installed #6 and #7. All hand tight initially. I then went and tightened down #2 and #3 and then #6 and #7 cap bolts with a torque wrench (104 inch/lbs). Then finished by tightening the outer cap bolts. After that I installed the tensioner then the wedge. I then cranked the engine 2 times putting the crank back to the tick mark next to the "T". I had NO chain jump this time. I will note that I cranked the engine SLOWLY. Rechecked the IN and Z7EX marks and counted the links again. I "might" be good now.....might being the key word. I need to re-check valve clearances. If those are still in spec I would think that I am good to go. I'll pull the tensioner wedge off and reinstall the cam cover then reinstall the tensioner wedge.