OIL you know black gold

I ran Castol GTX in my old 650 for about 135,000 miles and had good luck with it until the end. As I've said before but quickly repeat, I ran that engine a long time and changed oil every 2000 miles. There was never a speck of sludge in that engine until maybe 120,000 miles, then I could see crap building up a little under the valvecover when I'd do clearances ect, then maybe at 130,000 I was seeing much more. By 135,000 miles even though still changing oil every 2000 miles there was so much sludge I couldn't even drain the oil out of the pan. That was the end of my beloved engine. I still think it was Castol breaking down under more than normal blowby. Yes, I was burning oil at the rate of about 1 qt every 400 miles so there was considerable blowby, but not horrible and the bike never smoked. So in 2000 miles I was actually adding 5 qts of oil in addition to the 3 qt oil change. I still don't understand all this oil turning to 100wt gear oil but it did and I'll never use GTX again.

RonKZ650 wrote:

I ran Castol GTX in my old 650 for about 135,000 miles and had good luck with it until the end. As I've said before but quickly repeat, I ran that engine a long time and changed oil every 2000 miles. There was never a speck of sludge in that engine until maybe 120,000 miles, then I could see crap building up a little under the valvecover when I'd do clearances ect, then maybe at 130,000 I was seeing much more. By 135,000 miles even though still changing oil every 2000 miles there was so much sludge I couldn't even drain the oil out of the pan. That was the end of my beloved engine. I still think it was Castol breaking down under more than normal blowby. Yes, I was burning oil at the rate of about 1 qt every 400 miles so there was considerable blowby, but not horrible and the bike never smoked. So in 2000 miles I was actually adding 5 qts of oil in addition to the 3 qt oil change. I still don't understand all this oil turning to 100wt gear oil but it did and I'll never use GTX again.

I assume you're using motorcycle oil now? Have you noticed any sludge build up on the bikes you have now?

I went back and forth with GTX and "motorcycle" oils and didn't really notice any difference in the sludge level during valve adjustments, but I wasn't looking very closely either.

Working at Dealerships/Repair?Performance shops for the last 17 years oil has come quite a long way.

Running a car oil is fine enough for top endwise, but for the transmission and clutch it doesn't cut the cake.

The funny part is every year some twit with a PHD from some university that bought a Harley to ride when it's mostly sunny and between 78 and 78.5 degrees F and as long as its not over a 6 mile trip writes an article that gets our industry in an uproar thinking that we've been doing it wrong all along and thanks to these "Weekend Warrior/ newfound Motorcyclist "Saviors"" our lives have new meaning.

Sorry but I'll run M/C oil in my bikes or I won't run em at all.

Funny that Mobil and Castrol didn't mention that they have specific MC oils, as a matter of fact your Kawasaki Oil and Genuine Honda oil are made by Mobil.

Call Mobil, call Castrol, they'll TELL you to run the MC grade oils and NOT to run the auto grade oils.

Funny how the study left that out, huh.

Just my two cents.

loudhvx wrote:

RonKZ650 wrote:

I ran Castol GTX in my old 650 for about 135,000 miles and had good luck with it until the end. As I've said before but quickly repeat, I ran that engine a long time and changed oil every 2000 miles. There was never a speck of sludge in that engine until maybe 120,000 miles, then I could see crap building up a little under the valvecover when I'd do clearances ect, then maybe at 130,000 I was seeing much more. By 135,000 miles even though still changing oil every 2000 miles there was so much sludge I couldn't even drain the oil out of the pan. That was the end of my beloved engine. I still think it was Castol breaking down under more than normal blowby. Yes, I was burning oil at the rate of about 1 qt every 400 miles so there was considerable blowby, but not horrible and the bike never smoked. So in 2000 miles I was actually adding 5 qts of oil in addition to the 3 qt oil change. I still don't understand all this oil turning to 100wt gear oil but it did and I'll never use GTX again.

I assume you're using motorcycle oil now? Have you noticed any sludge build up on the bikes you have now?

I went back and forth with GTX and "motorcycle" oils and didn't really notice any difference in the sludge level during valve adjustments, but I wasn't looking very closely either.

I'm just running Diesel oil, Rotella 15w40. I don't ride enough anymore to really say for sure if it's any different. No sludge now, but the engines aren't the high mileage worn out ones I used to run. I've run 30,000 miles on the 650 I ride now with Rotella and it's worked good in that time for me.

OK So I checked with Mobil, and copied a small section from their explanations bewteen Auto and MC oils...

Okay. Let's start with Mobil 1 MX4T. What does it offer that Mobil 1 for cars does not?

Mobil 1 MX4T is designed for sport bikes. Most of these bikes have multi-cylinder/multi-valve engines and use a common sump, which means the engine oil lubricates the engine, transmission and wet clutch. So unlike Mobil 1 for cars, Mobil 1 MX4T has no friction modifiers, which could lead to clutch slippage.

The motorcycle oil also has more phosphorus/zinc for enhanced wear protection at high engine speeds and high loads.

In addition, Mobil 1 MX4T uses different dispersant/detergent technology for better high-temperature performance and engine cleanliness. Mobil 1 MX4T is also offered in a different viscosity grade than Mobil 1 for passenger cars.

Ok, lets take a look at what they say.

Mobil 1 MX4T is designed for sport bikes. Most of these bikes have multi-cylinder/multi-valve engines

Not really applicable to 2 valve KZ motors is it?

and use a common sump, which means the engine oil lubricates the engine, transmission and wet clutch. So unlike Mobil 1 for cars, Mobil 1 MX4T has no friction modifiers, which could lead to clutch slippage.

This has been discussed many times here, and I don't think anyone will disagree that friction modifiers = bad for kz's.

The motorcycle oil also has more phosphorus/zinc for enhanced wear protection at high engine speeds and high loads.

This is just comparing Mobil 1 for cars against Mobile one for bikes, not comparing it against any other oils, especially Shell Rotella T which is designed for diesels without cats.

In addition, Mobil 1 MX4T uses different dispersant/detergent technology for better high-temperature performance and engine cleanliness.

Marketing fluff, every oil company has their own dispersant/detergent package, and each is different than the others

Mobil 1 MX4T is also offered in a different viscosity grade than Mobil 1 for passenger cars.

Ok, you can get different viscosity grades in any brand of oil that I can think of

You realize this is like arguing which bike is the best? No way in the world that everyone is going to agree on this topic

If someone really wants to get serious about their oil, then they can do oil sampling and get their oil analyzed at every oil change and see exactly what's going on. Actually, a year or two ago there was a post by someone that was running a fleet of trucks and used Shell Rotalla T in their bike and they did that (IIRC that is).

Ron put what 135,000 miles on his 650 using Castrol GTX? Sheesh, if the odometer on my bike hits 135,000 miles that will mean I'm still riding when I'm over 100 years old :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Post edited by: steell, at: 2006/07/24 20:57

steell wrote:

Ron put what 135,000 miles on his 650 using Castrol GTX? Sheesh, if the odometer on my bike hits 135,000 miles that will mean I'm still riding when I'm over 100 years old :laugh: :laugh: :laugh

Yeah, so when you turn 101, what oil are you going to use then?

Post edited by: loudhvx, at: 2006/07/25 22:40

trippivot wrote:

if that were true why not put standard engine oil in the rear differential of your truck or car?
or even in your manual transmission?
The heaver viscoscity is available

do all you guys run auto oil in the hypoid gear boxes?

better safe than sorry for me I spend a lot of money on internal engine parts. thx.

i didnt read anything after this.. but i have the fat. manual for my z1 and it says to use castrol gtx 10w40

and if what u say is true, id think the guy's that dragrace for a living wouldnt use castrol. theyd use "motorcycle oil".

RollingStock wrote:

trippivot wrote:

if that were true why not put standard engine oil in the rear differential of your truck or car?
or even in your manual transmission?
The heaver viscoscity is available

do all you guys run auto oil in the hypoid gear boxes?

better safe than sorry for me I spend a lot of money on internal engine parts. thx.

i didnt read anything after this.. but i have the fat. manual for my z1 and it says to use castrol gtx 10w40

and if what u say is true, id think the guy's that dragrace for a living wouldnt use castrol. theyd use "motorcycle oil".

i dont pay much attention to what pro drag racers use they only run a 1/4 mile at a time and they get paid heavily to plaster those stickers all over their cars and bikes,lots of stock cars and drag cars have penzoil stickers on their cars i personally wouldnt run that stuff in a lawnmower!:evil: :whistle: its called sponsorship!

wireman wrote:

RollingStock wrote:

trippivot wrote:

if that were true why not put standard engine oil in the rear differential of your truck or car?
or even in your manual transmission?
The heaver viscoscity is available

do all you guys run auto oil in the hypoid gear boxes?

better safe than sorry for me I spend a lot of money on internal engine parts. thx.

i didnt read anything after this.. but i have the fat. manual for my z1 and it says to use castrol gtx 10w40

and if what u say is true, id think the guy's that dragrace for a living wouldnt use castrol. theyd use "motorcycle oil".

i dont pay much attention to what pro drag racers use they only run a 1/4 mile at a time and they get paid heavily to plaster those stickers all over their cars and bikes,lots of stock cars and drag cars have penzoil stickers on their cars i personally wouldnt run that stuff in a lawnmower!:evil: :whistle: its called sponsorship!

not everyone is sponsored.. i shop i help out at isnt.. johnny(owner/rider at exoticycle) pays for everything himself.. and i know alot of other guy that pay for everything out there own pocket..

im talking about the hi-end mega dollar race teams,although i used to sponsor 2 55 chevy drag cars through my company before i retired.

Sorry, but my whole point in quoting from Mobil's oil site wasn't to put anyone down, but to show that the so-called expert who did the research in the 1994 study was full of sh*t.

He stated Mobil and Castrol had no comments, when BOTH of the manufacturers will tell you there is a difference between the oils, and working with Honda over the last two decades, I find it hard to believe that the people there he spoke with couldn't help him, especially when anyone can call and they'll refer them to Mobil, who blends and produces their oils.

My point was don't always believe some of the crap some sorry arsed moron with a PHD in Hoovers puts out because he needs a paper published, because 95% of the time, it's crapola.