Growing more and more frustration due to breaking iron valve guides on install

much time was invested simply learning as much as possible prior to jumping into anything
not blessed with $ and/or correct tooling, can hardly find $ to buy these parts
let alone having to order/buy the same part over and over again due to botched installs
made my own tool, lol integrating previous failed guide parts into the tool.

 

stem of tool goes entirely through guide but does not protrude
put new iron guide on ice in freezer and head into grill for 20 mins
tried to be well prepped so it wasn't a goose chase after taking head out of grill
did not go at it like a wild man wielding an axe
started in fine, and was going in fairly smoothly, only moderately but squarely rapping with hammer
rapped 3x and snapped right at circlip



feeling the agony of defeat at this point
however, i'm refusing to bend a knee here gonna order bronze guides and just hope for the best install ever
if these fail on install, I will respectfully just walk away and never return to that arena again lol 
my neighbors must all think I have turrets syndrome or something lol from all my flippin' out, flying wrenches and cussing like a sailor! lmfao

are bronze guides as brittle? thanks for listening to my ranting, the struggles are real

Are you heating the head before removing them then re heating it to install them from the top?
Steve
HONDA CB350 CL350 SL350 CB360 CB KZ400 KZ650 KZ900 KZ1000 VALVE GUIDE DRIVER 7mm

 

Here's another one. 
www.cylinderheadsupply.com/kl2267.html

www.cylinderheadsupply.com/nsearch.html?...=yhst-58082516732612

Heating the head will make it easier.  Honestly, though, replacing valve guides is an advanced project.  And the seats will have to be recut afterwards, not just a lapping.

I believe the bronze guides would be more forgiving but there are a few things to consider

• Are these OE guides (if not the head may need reaming to be sized correctly for the guides) you shouldn't need to beat on them as hard as you appear to be needing to
• It is not unheard of to need to ream new guides once fitted to get the correct clearance for the stem so it doesn't bind when hot (we used to have to ream genuine VW guides once fitted)
• Pressing would be better than hammering as it applies a constant pressure on the guide
• If you have to use a hammer then use a copper mallet if possible (a steel hammer sends a shock wave every time you hit it)
• Personally I would be very shy of heating the head as you have described, with the varying thickness of material in the head there is a very real risk that you will warp the head or twist the cam carriers (you would never unbolt a head on a hot motor as the head would likely warp)

All of the above is IMHO. I get your budget constraints but I think you a walking a fine line between success and a scrap head 

 

I did mine with a torch one by one then took it to Clupper Racing for a three angle seat job. A little metal came out with one of them but the new one drove in nice and tight. 
In 78 I broke a cam chain and one guide was ruined. Barry at Handy Cycle in LA Knurled a Honda 350 guide for the same reason and installed it the same way. I RODE THE PISS OUT OF IT till the next top end job in 82.
Steve. 

Installing new valve guides is not a rookie job! You need the knowledge, experiance, the right tools and parts. Anything else will destroy your cylinder head, trust me!!!

 
 
 
 
 

Here is the valve guide installing tool my machinist made up for me for my Kz1000 heads back in the '70's. The holder drops into the valve spring/bucket cavity then the driver is inserted down through the holder. That way you are always installing the guide perpendicular to the valve seat. I heat the head up to 250 degrees or more. Put the new frozen valve guide into place. Drop the holder into place over the guide. Put driver into place. Then tap with hammer to you hear the sound change. That means you have bottomed the guide up to the locating circlip. With the heated head, and the frozen guide it only takes a few taps with the hammer to get the new valve guide into place!!!! 

 

 

wrote:

I believe the bronze guides would be more forgiving but there are a few things to consider

• Are these OE guides (if not the head may need reaming to be sized correctly for the guides) you shouldn't need to beat on them as hard as you appear to be needing to
• It is not unheard of to need to ream new guides once fitted to get the correct clearance for the stem so it doesn't bind when hot (we used to have to ream genuine VW guides once fitted)
• Pressing would be better than hammering as it applies a constant pressure on the guide
• If you have to use a hammer then use a copper mallet if possible (a steel hammer sends a shock wave every time you hit it)
• Personally I would be very shy of heating the head as you have described, with the varying thickness of material in the head there is a very real risk that you will warp the head or twist the cam carriers (you would never unbolt a head on a hot motor as the head would likely warp)

All of the above is IMHO. I get your budget constraints but I think you a walking a fine line between success and a scrap head 

 

Partzilla OE

wrote:

Here is the valve guide installing tool my machinist made up for me for my Kz1000 heads back in the '70's. The holder drops into the valve spring/bucket cavity then the driver is inserted down through the holder. That way you are always installing the guide perpendicular to the valve seat. I heat the head up to 250 degrees or more. Put the new frozen valve guide into place. Drop the holder into place over the guide. Put driver into place. Then tap with hammer to you hear the sound change. That means you have bottomed the guide up to the locating circlip. With the heated head, and the frozen guide it only takes a few taps with the hammer to get the new valve guide into place!!!! 

 

 

Haven't seen that sort of tool, but that looks like a brilliant fabrication and an effective one.
Rob (zed) also has a really cool fab'd tool for this as well. I certainly like the way yours doesn't mess with anything that's self centering on the seat area though. 
LOL surely you're talkin' about, "whack, whack, whack, TINGG!!!" where the noise changes pitch? 
Let me explain something off subject, capitals are only used occasionally in my posts. Home laptop's keyboard is failing, SHIFT keys and caps lock have went south. It's not laziness, I can assure LOL 

Wookie  I have a newish 7mm Kibblewhite ball flex hone 240 grit and the guides were OE iron  GUIDE,INLET VALVE
12013-009
Hey Dr. Gamma, if possible, I'd like to know the dimensions of the tool you'd posted. Looks like it wouldn't be very difficult to duplicate on a lathe. There's been a voice in my head all throughout this ordeal saying, "There's just got to be a better way!" 

Thanks for all your responses! 


 

wrote:

Are you heating the head before removing them then re heating it to install them from the top?
Steve
HONDA CB350 CL350 SL350 CB360 CB KZ400 KZ650 KZ900 KZ1000 VALVE GUIDE DRIVER 7mm

 

yes - heated for the removal and installation. No problems with removing guides using a torch, but just feel its of a rather great importance to heat the entire head in an oven or grill, sure makes it lots easier. Not real sure what my problem is. I don't see anything wrong with the tool I'd made though, where the correct tool is otherwise unobtainable. Seems it's the exact same thing, just much shorter. 
Trust and believe, I do listen very attentively to u guys on this subject. If this forum didn't exist, I really don't know what I'd do. Truly a grateful man! 

Here is a quick print of both parts of my tool for installing guides. All my mikes are metric, so most of the measurements are in metric. The overall measurements were done with a ruler. So those are in American. Hope you work in metric!!!