Top end Noise....

2005 kz1000P /24 Police
Odometer has 70,000 miles but believe the engine may have been swapped.

Not new to motorcycles but am new to overhead cams. Bike has a lot of noises coming from the Top end. Bottom end okay per my stethoscope. Thought it might be the cam chain so installed a APE manual cam chain tensioner. Noise decreased a little but still too much (IMO). Pulled Valve cover. Checked lash as per manual. 5 valves were between .004, .005 and one at .006. 3 Valves I could not get even a .001 to slide in. I cannot give the shim sizes as yet as I am waiting on the tool.... I bought the Motion Pro tool, hopefully it will work.

Question: In your opinion could this be causing all or some of the noise.

Checked the cam chain. Looked okay and checked at 127 - 128mm 20 links. Book says that is okay. There seems a lot of slack in chain but I am attributing that to the valve cover being off. (no top follower) While turning the engine over carefully I hear a pop and the chain jumps. I am hoping that is also normal with the cover off.

I appreciate any replies,,, I searched for valve noise kz1000 without any luck. I am new to the forum so if anything with the post is wrong please let me know.

Thanks....

If you hear a pop and the chain jumps check the cam timing or bent valves may be the result. Sounds like cam chain noise. Check if one of the guides are broken and loose. That can happen if the bike is run with a loose cam chain for too long.
Steve

It Looks like you have a later HYVO cam chain engine with valve shims UNDER the buckets, so you have to remove the cams for a shim reading and change.
Earlier engines have roller cam chain and a top idler sprocket mounted between the IN/EX cams, plus shim OVER bucket, the Motion Pro tool you bought for.

The later KZP's had shim under buckets?

I believe ALL the cop bike 1000's are shim on top of bucket.

Everyone I have seen apart was shim on top of bucket. But what do I know.

That motor with the APE manual tensioner installed, I would not turn motor over with the V/C removed. With the stock tensioner in place, when you remove V/C it automatically takes up all the extra play in cam chain. The manual tensioner DOES NOT do that. I hope you are not using the electric starter to turn motor over either.

I would remove the sparking plugs and slowly roll motor over and check the cam timing. Use the 17mm nut on the advance unit to turn motor over. I believe the sound you heard was the cam chain jumping teeth on crank.

This is shim on top of the lifter or bucket as many seem to call it. The manual tensioner installation requires you to run it in till it stops then back out 1/4 turn. Yes I turned it over with the starter once installed with the starter and run the bike for 30 miles. Noisy but no problems.

With the valve cover off and Plugs out I did check the timing... it's good. I am beginning to think an old Honda guy, like myself, may have set the valves to .004 (in) intake .006 in(ex) which might be too loose for this bike. Replies appreciated. Dr. Gamma--- Prescott! Yea been there many times back in the day.... Raised in Phoenix.

I thought so. .004 - .006 isn't going to cause that much noise. I'd check the guides and I knew it was a HYVO chain.
Steve

Maybe I need to explain that the popping I hear is while I am turning the crank with a ratchet. The chain first tightens up as I am turning. Then about a half a turn,,, turning very slow,,, I hear a pop and the chain jumps a little. I am hoping it is because the cover is off and there is no top chain follower. I assumed many here have done this and hopefully would be able to verify my hypothesis.

Man this captcha thing is really something. It actually times out as does your login. I have logged in and done the captcha more today then the last several months. Very secure motorcycle forum site.....

keep an eye on the cam timing when rotating the crank.
The popping is either the cam flicking round slightly under valve spring pressure on the lobes which is normal and is because the cover is off and the chain isn't under tension but also it's possible for the chain to jump teeth on the cam sprockets which you would see happening.
The chain can't jump teeth on the crank though as the main cap has a bolt head that runs close to the chain which limits the amount the chain can ride up on the teeth .

Thanks Zed. That is kind of what I was thinking . Yes the chain jumps and tries to get out of time but now I just keep my finger on it.

With 5 valves more or less good,( .004 in to .006 in), and the other 3 appear having .000 in I cannot figure why all the noise. The chain checks within tolerance. No abnormal noises in the bottom end. I sure wish I could hear a "normal" running Kaw overhead valve engine. This thing has a lot of "clattering" type sound. Maybe like marbles shaking in a tin can.... it's really hard to describe this noise. No decent Kaw shop in the area. If I figure it out I'll let the forum know.

Thanks again!

Do get the valve clearances in spec, but I doubt if that is what you are hearing. Ideally, the gaps should be in the middle of the range, or toward the loose side. The clearances get smaller as things wear.
It is possible that you are hearing exhaust leaks where the pipes meet the head. You could try VERY CAREFULLY tightening the exhaust nuts to spec to see if that makes any difference. They are easy to strip, so don't get carried away. You could also just replace the copper crush washers just to be sure.
It is also possible that one of the cam chain guides has gotten brittle and lost a chunk. Draining the engine oil may reveal small bits if that is the case.
As long as you have the cam chain tensioner off, take it apart and carefully clean and lube its parts and insure that it is working as intended.
Although unlikely, do the cams seem loose in their bearings? A badly abused engine may have excessive wear in the cam bearings, allowing the cams to rattle around a bit.
At the end of the day, these engines are noisier than modern water cooled ones. Perhaps there is a forum member near you that could give it a listen.

"Marbles shaking in a tin can" sound is close to what detonation sounds like. Not really possible to get detonation idling, but under load, for sure. Spark timing is set close or correctly? Mixture really lean?