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Starter clutch trouble 07 Apr 2017 22:41 #758752

  • SmokyOwl
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Well it looks like I did it again.

From everything I was reading here and several other sites changing the starter clutch is one of the easiest things to do. The internet straight up lied to me. It is hands down one of the most frustrating jobs ever.

Started out simple enough, a $35 starter clutch kit. then I shattered two of the rotor magnets trying to take it off the crankshaft. a $270 ebay replacement and a week later, I successfully removed the broken rotor by shoving a pair of shoelaces down a spark plug hole. After carefully cleaning and re-oiling the gears and new bearing, carefully reassembling the rotor springs and weights, torqueing everything down properly I finally torqued the rotor back in place. I was working on the cover and gasket when....

.....there.....

right there....was another crack in one of the magnets. I had been SO careful....I treated that rotor like it was made of glass.....HOW could this have happened?!?!?

So this crack is pretty small, I can barely feel it. It's clean with no secondary pieces or chunks, so I've just decided to leave it and hope for the best.

Does anybody think I'm making a horrible mistake? I'd give a picture of it, but the crack is so small I seriously doubt anybody would be able to make it out....and I already have the cover back on anyways. Seriously these magnets break as easy as sneezing it's ridiculous.
1982 Kawasaki KZ1100 A2, Shaft

Never trade the thrill of living for the safety of existance.

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Starter clutch trouble 08 Apr 2017 05:33 #758766

  • GPzMOD750
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I don't think it's uncommon for small cracks to form in the magnets.

I'm dreading having to change the clutch on mine. The flywheel on the KZ1000E1 I had was literally seized and I destroyed it trying to get it off which it never did.

I've gone so far to put a CB900 starter in it and new battery and it all acts the same so I'm very much thinking it's the starter/kill switch, solenoid, or (please God, no) the starter clutch.

My main suspect is the solenoid since sometimes when I hit the starter button absolutely nothing happens, no turning over, no click. My theory is that the solenoid sometimes isn't allowing enough current to the starter to let it turn with enough force to let the clutch grab so it slips. Other times it just takes a bump of the switch to start since the CB starter is a .8 kW (approx. 1 hp) instead of the factory .6 kW. Even the CB750 starter is .7 kW.
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Starter clutch trouble 08 Apr 2017 06:07 #758768

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SmokyOwl wrote: Well it looks like I did it again.

From everything I was reading here and several other sites changing the starter clutch is one of the easiest things to do. The internet straight up lied to me. It is hands down one of the most frustrating jobs ever.

Started out simple enough, a $35 starter clutch kit. then I shattered two of the rotor magnets trying to take it off the crankshaft. a $270 ebay replacement and a week later, I successfully removed the broken rotor by shoving a pair of shoelaces down a spark plug hole. After carefully cleaning and re-oiling the gears and new bearing, carefully reassembling the rotor springs and weights, torqueing everything down properly I finally torqued the rotor back in place. I was working on the cover and gasket when....

.....there.....

right there....was another crack in one of the magnets. I had been SO careful....I treated that rotor like it was made of glass.....HOW could this have happened?!?!?

So this crack is pretty small, I can barely feel it. It's clean with no secondary pieces or chunks, so I've just decided to leave it and hope for the best.

Does anybody think I'm making a horrible mistake? I'd give a picture of it, but the crack is so small I seriously doubt anybody would be able to make it out....and I already have the cover back on anyways. Seriously these magnets break as easy as sneezing it's ridiculous.


Shoe laces?
Steve

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Starter clutch trouble 08 Apr 2017 07:11 #758772

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Enough shoelace material will prevent the piston from moving when it nears TDC, so a person can crank away on the rotor bolt without the crank turning.
Frightens me just a bit.
1982 KZ1000 LTD parts donor
1981 KZ1000 LTD awaiting resurrection
2000 ZRX1100 not ridden enough

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Starter clutch trouble 08 Apr 2017 07:57 #758775

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Been there:
www.kzrider.com/kunena/2-engine/540846-oh-brother#540846

The Electrex R03 replacement was the biggest pita learning experience I ever had with this bike. After a year of screwing around trying to make it work, I got a full refund after sending the second one back...

For sanity sake...use a Genuine Kawasaki rotor.:pinch:
I now keep a couple spares handy, just in case.
1982 KZ1100-A2

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Starter clutch trouble 08 Apr 2017 08:30 #758779

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TexasKZ wrote: Enough shoelace material will prevent the piston from moving when it nears TDC, so a person can crank away on the rotor bolt without the crank turning.
Frightens me just a bit.


Yeah I wasn't a fan of it either. I put it down cylinder 1 because it was the most convenient AND more importantly the torque exerted on the crankshaft didn't go all the way through the length of the crankshaft and didn't twist something. I'm still wringing my hands hoping I didn't bend a valve, but when nearing TopDeadCenter the valves are nearly closed anyways. Make sure the laces are NEW and strong, you don't want to get tangled up trying to retrieve the shoelace and break the line in frustration as I had a close call myself.

Unfortunately the "special tool' that's supposed to be used can no longer be purchased and would have to be custom made. I bought raw leather laces from a shoe store specifically for the job. To put the clutch pins assembly on and torque the bolts down I was pretty clever; my large vice has screws holding the grips in place, and removed two of the screws opposite each other and replaced them with a pair of pieces of threaded rod....worked like a charm for holding the rotor in place. Lets see if I can get a picture:



The rotor was very wobbly, and I couldn't 'clamp' down on it or the magnets would break. I could've stuck a piece of wood to stop it from wobbling all over the place now that I think about it. Hopefully this idea helps somebody out there.

The biggest tap that new rotor went through was the 'click' of the torque wrench on the clutch pins assembly as well as the main rotor bolt. How this happened just confounds me, but now I'm just waiting for the gasket to seal and crossing my fingers that everything will be ok.
1982 Kawasaki KZ1100 A2, Shaft

Never trade the thrill of living for the safety of existance.
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Starter clutch trouble 08 Apr 2017 10:03 #758787

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Item number. 121291818330
On the bay of fleas.
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Starter clutch trouble 09 Apr 2017 09:10 #758834

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Well now the bike is truly broken.

Pretty sure I just burnt out the starter. I fired it up and clearly the gears for the starter were still engaged, shut it down....and now all I get is a loud 'click'. by the starter area.

wth....new springs should've stopped this from happening. Now with my timeframe my epic trip is cancelled.
1982 Kawasaki KZ1100 A2, Shaft

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Last edit: by SmokyOwl.

Starter clutch trouble 09 Apr 2017 09:28 #758835

  • GPzMOD750
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Crap! Have you tried bypassing the relay? I just checked mine and it's running sporadically and weakly when it is. I bypassed it and the starter is running like a top.

This could be an excuse to get the Mitsuba SM-220 starter. Make sure you get the 0.8 kW version for the CB900F Nighthawk. The CB750 is the same model number but 0.7 kW. They fit right in if you rotate the end caps so the cable terminal is pointing straight down.
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Starter clutch trouble 09 Apr 2017 09:38 #758836

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I have a kz1100, not a cb. I'd be more comfortable not modifying anything and just getting a new starter. I'm wondering if maybe when I torqued down the centerbolt I didn't spin the rotor freely and it's seized up? That's the only thing I can think of as to why this happened.

Although the new springs seemed right, I found it hard to believe those weights were moving anywhere when the engine is running. I'm not sure I understand exactly how this clutch thing works.
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Starter clutch trouble 09 Apr 2017 10:16 #758837

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I have a KZ1100A2 as well. The stock starter is a 0.6 kW Mitsuba that has the same bolt spacing and mounting points. Only physical difference is that the cable post angles to the rear and slightly further up the case. Rotate the end caps so the terminal points down and you're golden.

They are also usually easier to find and are cheaper for the same condition on ebay. A new or rebuilt version of either is easily 3+ times more than a good used one. Since a majority of bikes are ridden far less than 100k miles before they are scrapped I don't have a problem trying a used one. I just make sure the seller will refund or replace if I get a bad one.

The Clutch works by gripping the crank shaft when force is applied to the clutch gear. That's why the pins are angled towards the rotation of the shaft. Once there is no force applied to the starter clutch gear it stops and the shaft free spins within the gear while it's running.

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Starter clutch trouble 09 Apr 2017 10:51 #758840

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Hare's a vid if you want to double check your work.

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