Needed: Engine rebuild warning, tips, and tricks

I haven't been on here posting in quite a while here, mostly because I'm getting my 82' KZ1100's engine more-or-less rebuilt sometime this winter. My cam chain guide broke, so in having a shop tear down the engine, probably bore the cylinders and replace piston rings, a few valve guides, and a valve job. It's leaking fuel into cylinder #2, causing it to run rich in said cylinder. I'm also burning oil....don't know which side, (the mechanic told me he spotted me riding this summer and I was had the evil blue smoke) but I'm guessing cylinder #2 as well. My budget is $2k for this job,

The mechanic told me it's a real pain to hold the camchain (I think he said camchain?) still while doing something else, man my memory is going . Are there any other headaches or potential issues in store for him I should warn him about? Last thing I want is for him to have to tear the engine apart again because of a mistake.

SO if you've ever done a rebuild and at the end said "oh NO! I forgot...." or if you thought of something thoughtful in your journey, let us know.

Wish I was in your area because I'd be happy to take your $2k for a simple refreshing. How many miles on the engine? Unless it's north of 70k or there has been a bunch of damage from the busted guide it shouldn't cost you more than $500.

There's nothing magical about rebuilding the top end as long as the guy doing it knows what he's doing. :dry:
Steve

Nessism wrote: Wish I was in your area because I'd be happy to take your $2k for a simple refreshing. How many miles on the engine? Unless it's north of 70k or there has been a bunch of damage from the busted guide it shouldn't cost you more than $500.

Well they guy is charging like $80 an hour, maybe $100. Engine's got like 27k on it.

SmokyOwl wrote:

Nessism wrote: Wish I was in your area because I'd be happy to take your $2k for a simple refreshing. How many miles on the engine? Unless it's north of 70k or there has been a bunch of damage from the busted guide it shouldn't cost you more than $500.

Well they guy is charging like $80 an hour, maybe $100. Engine's got like 27k on it.

Camchain, topend rebuild at 27K? sounds like a simple valve guide seal change out and cleaning/ lapping the valves, as well as fixing the guide (assuming no valves were bent when the chain went slack)

SmokyOwl wrote:

Nessism wrote: Wish I was in your area because I'd be happy to take your $2k for a simple refreshing. How many miles on the engine? Unless it's north of 70k or there has been a bunch of damage from the busted guide it shouldn't cost you more than $500.

Well they guy is charging like $80 an hour, maybe $100. Engine's got like 27k on it.

Get a second opinion.
Steve

Right now I don't have much choice. He's the best in town, and with no trailer I'm rather stuck. He's keeping the bike stored for me through the winter (He's had it for almost 2 months now, he's waiting for a lull in work so he can concentrate on it), and from what I see his shop is very clean.

Top end rebuilds are typically $2k for these bikes at a shop aren't they? I mean I could see it being $500 if I did the job myself.

$2000.00 US is about $2600.00 Canadian and that is a lot of cash, what does your mechanic think he is re building an engine that will take you to the moon? I agree with swest get another opinion and shop around for other quotes, money does not grow in trees, and these days its hard to come by, my 2 cents.

If the cam chain broke, there is a good chance the motor tagged a few valves too. 27k, bet you the exhaust valve guides are history too. Bet you the rear cam chain guide is worn out.

That is a whole lot of $$$ :ohmy:

Don't blindly trust anyone to touch your engine, let alone put a bolt in it. Some mechanics think it is ordinary procedure to install helicoils after treating the aluminum like it is steel or cast iron.

Get the guy to warranty his work in-writing, and have him describe everything he plans to do ahead of time with you.
I made the mistake of trusting the first guy someone recommended to do the top end on my engine. He did it wrong, alright.
For some reason he went conveniently out of business soon after completing my project. The guy had installed new rings in the old out-of-round cylinders which led to considerable oil consumption and several broken rings, which an experienced race-engine builder found in there later that year. Boy was I a dumb shit, but then again I had no practical knowledge about the mechanics...I just wanted to ride. :evil:
That was before I decided to put my limited and out-dated mechanical skill to work, and discovered how simple the J-motors are.
Now I have the machining work done professionally, and do the assembly work myself as much as possible. You might be surprised how much $$$ you can save by doing the assembly yourself, and gaining insight into the motional-workings of these engines at the same time.
I'm glad I took good-care of that old torque wrench I bought brand-new in the early seventies.

daveo wrote: That is a whole lot of $$$ :ohmy:

Don't blindly trust anyone to touch your engine, let alone put a bolt in it. Some mechanics think it is ordinary procedure to install helicoils after treating the aluminum like it is steel or cast iron.

Get the guy to warranty his work in-writing, and have him describe everything he plans to do ahead of time with you.
I made the mistake of trusting the first guy someone recommended to do the top end on my engine. He did it wrong, alright.
For some reason he went conveniently out of business soon after completing my project. The guy had installed new rings in the old out-of-round cylinders which led to considerable oil consumption and several broken rings, which an experienced race-engine builder found in there later that year. Boy was I a dumb shit, but then again I had no practical knowledge about the mechanics...I just wanted to ride. :evil:
That was before I decided to put my limited and out-dated mechanical skill to work, and discovered how simple the J-motors are.
Now I have the machining work done professionally, and do the assembly work myself as much as possible. You might be surprised how much $$$ you can save by doing the assembly yourself, and gaining insight into the motional-workings of these engines at the same time.
I'm glad I took good-care of that old torque wrench I bought brand-new in the early seventies.

The guy's procedure for doing these larger jobs is to give updated charges and estimates as the job is being completed, so the job can stop at anytime I'm not comfortable paying any more. He said head jobs usually $1k to 1.2k, but now with all the little additions I want, i.e. valve job, petcock work, maybe a carburetor rebuild/cleaning, I'm estimating it being about $1.5k to $2k.

So you're saying I should have all the pistons replaced as well as the rings?

I HATE working on anything in the cold. Everything sucks, I just start getting really angry and screw up the job, then start throwing things. I was told by a guy at work too (He owned a bike shop and his bikes were publicized in on front-page magazines), if you're not REALLY comfortable with engines, and you don't really know what you're doing, don't do a top-end rebuild and you'll just screw it up. So I'm letting it go to a shop.

SmokyOwl wrote:
So you're saying I should have all the pistons replaced as well as the rings?

Depending on the condition of the bores, and the pistons (lands, etc.)
If it wasn't for ebay, my bike would have gone away a long time ago. I think I'm on my third set of cylinders with what is in there now.
Being budget minded with my bike, I preferred to keep it stock with everything below the head gaskets. I get plenty of excitement riding with a little less power and some green left in my pocket.

Decent cylinder blocks can be had for under $200, which may only need a good honing before use. That was the case in 2015 for me. In fact, my old cylinder was adequate for reuse, and was honed by my engine guy for $20 to keep around for next time, if ever there is one. :whistle:
Even the pistons were good...but I had a NOS STD set (and rings) sitting around which I chose to use beneath a stock 84 bathtub head with GPz cams. IMO the best thing I've done with that bike to date.

My best advice would be to take your time, and save as much $$$ as you can, until you can proceed with 100% confidence in your own decision.