Head/valve cover bolts

swest wrote:

missionkz wrote:

swest wrote: $20? :ohmy: I charge $40 per carb. Hope he didn't mung them up.
Steve

HA ha $20 for four carbs?
Can you spell Red Green?

:huh:

He's a KZ Canuk so I think he'll get it.

Oh, OK.
Steve

swest wrote: Oh, OK.
Steve

The Red Green Show
The title character, Red Green (Steve Smith), is a handyman who tries to find shortcuts to most of his projects, trusting most of his work to duct tape, which he calls "the handyman's secret weapon". He is the president of the Possum Lodge, a fictional men's club in the small northwestern Ontario town of Possum Lake, near the also-fictional town of Port Asbestos. He and his fellow lodge members had their own TV show in which they gave lessons and demonstrations in repair work and outdoor activities, and advice for men.

I see, kinda like the guy with the special duct tape screwdrivers and stupid DYI posts. :lol:
Steve

Still running strong and yes I maybe related to red green and have hung around with the trailor park boys!!

Hey, reading through this and I am....concerned....

My first worry is the timing chain tensioner - get a Kawasaki service manual ASAP and read the sections on the correct methods to re-set the timing chain automatic tensioner before you break the timing chain, damage the chain guides, or wreck the bearings and head. It might seem o.k. now, but if you don't do this correctly, it will bite you in the ass eventually....and kill your engine's top end.

On bikes, the exhaust "manifold(s)" are called "head pipes" or "headers", there are four "head pipes" that join into two "collectors" before entering the two "silencers" (mufflers). Your bike's stock exhaust is what is referred to as a 4 into 2, or "4-2".

Get a proper gasket for your cam cover (I trust in Kawasaki OEM or Cometic and Vesrah aftermarket gaskets); and clean the mating surfaces completely before installing it. I coat all my engine gaskets with grease or gear oil before installation, as it helps the gasket seal and keeps it from sticking to the parts when you have to remove it. I despise use / overuse of gasket in a tube - I don't "glue" engines together; that is what the bolts and screws are for, damn it! I have an expensive Honda engine here (I get a lot of cheap used parts from various amateur's botch / hack / slop jobs) that was destroyed when excessively applied RTV got sucked into the oil pump...

Forget hand tight, by feel, and all that B_LLSH1T!!!!! It takes years of daily work experience for mechanics to get good at sensing when a bolt or screw is about to break off. Amateurs and week end warriors shouldn't trust in these methods. Use a proper inch-lbs 1/4" drive torque wrench on these bolts/screws - do you know how many heli-coils I've put into stripped valve cover and cam bearing screw holes???? Fooooooking by feel - my ass! Clean the threads (a bench grinder with a wire wheel is handy for bolts and screws, and run a thread chaser or sharp tap for internal threads) and apply clean engine oil, sealant, thread locker, etc. according to the service manual, to threads before installing engine fasteners. General rule-o-thumb: if you don't have a recommended torque sequence to follow - start in the center and work outward tightening 1/4 turn steps until you reach recommended torque.

Don't run the engine down the road without an air filter, and in your case, find a proper air box lid ASAP.

Put away the duct tape and keep your stick on the ice....

Kray-Z wrote: Forget hand tight, by feel, and all that B_LLSH1T!!!!! It takes years of daily work experience for mechanics to get good at sensing when a bolt or screw is about to break off. Amateurs and week end warriors shouldn't trust in these methods. Use a proper inch-lbs 1/4" drive torque wrench on these bolts/screws - do you know how many heli-coils I've put into stripped valve cover and cam bearing screw holes???? Fooooooking by feel - my ass! .....

+ 10,000 !!! I am always amused at folks who honestly believe they can properly sense the torque of a fastener by feel. They may get away with it on a cast iron V8, but on aluminum KZ engines they will invariably strip some threads or break a bolt before they get in the habit of under-tightening fasteners. If they would tighten 20 fasteners and then check them with a torque wrench they would be shocked at how far off and how inconsistent their sense of touch left those fasteners. I've done all my own work on my 1977 KZ650 since it was new and have never stripped any threads, broken a bolt, or left a fastener too loose. Reason? I use proper torque wrenches. Ed

I do not use a torque wrench on valve cover screws. I use a short levered 1/4" ratchet w/10mm socket and tighten by HAND. I do not strip screws.

I've seen MANY stripped threads because people were using a torque wrench but the threads couldn't take the stress. After years of usage and torquing and retorquing again and again sometimes the threads weaken and can't take the full torque load listed in the service manual. Of course there is also the case where many people's torque wrenches are not properly calibrated either. If a person has developed a decent level of feel you can sense and feel when the threads are overloading and stop before the threads pull out of the aluminum.

Nessism wrote: I do not use a torque wrench on valve cover screws. I use a short levered 1/4" ratchet w/10mm socket and tighten by HAND. I do not strip screws.

I've seen MANY stripped threads because people were using a torque wrench but the threads couldn't take the stress. After years of usage and torquing and retorquing again and again sometimes the threads weaken and can't take the full torque load listed in the service manual. Of course there is also the case where many people's torque wrenches are not properly calibrated either. If a person has developed a decent level of feel you can sense and feel when the threads are overloading and stop before the threads pull out of the aluminum.

Nessism,

I'm not saying it can't be done - just that for most people, it takes years of turning wrenches on a regular basis, and a few costly mistakes, to acquire the feel for tightening bolts and screws by feel alone, without causing damage. And I will argue that next to zero people can match the consistency of a proper torque wrench.

As far as causing damage while using a torque wrench, it is usually caused by setting the wrench at the maximum torque in the range specified, like choosing 12 ft-lbs. when the spec says 10-12 ft-lbs., not cleaning and lubricating the threads properly, or using a torque wrench not suited for the job (wrench too big for the job / too low in the tool's range) etc.

In my experience, damage occurs much more often when amateur mechanics keep tightening cover bolts because the gasket is weeping and they mistakenly assume that tightening the bolts near the leak will fix it. Another is installing cam caps against valve spring pressure and not torqueing all the bolts down evenly in small steps to prevent overloading the threads.

And wearing out cam cap threads in aluminum doesn't take that many cycles of removal and installation.

I have never owned an in-lbs torque wrench. I use a 1/4" and a stubby 3/8 for my Allen bolts.
Steve

Kray-Z wrote:

Nessism wrote: I do not use a torque wrench on valve cover screws. I use a short levered 1/4" ratchet w/10mm socket and tighten by HAND. I do not strip screws.

I've seen MANY stripped threads because people were using a torque wrench but the threads couldn't take the stress. After years of usage and torquing and retorquing again and again sometimes the threads weaken and can't take the full torque load listed in the service manual. Of course there is also the case where many people's torque wrenches are not properly calibrated either. If a person has developed a decent level of feel you can sense and feel when the threads are overloading and stop before the threads pull out of the aluminum.

Nessism,

I'm not saying it can't be done - just that for most people, it takes years of turning wrenches on a regular basis, and a few costly mistakes, to acquire the feel for tightening bolts and screws by feel alone, without causing damage. And I will argue that next to zero people can match the consistency of a proper torque wrench.

As far as causing damage while using a torque wrench, it is usually caused by setting the wrench at the maximum torque in the range specified, like choosing 12 ft-lbs. when the spec says 10-12 ft-lbs., not cleaning and lubricating the threads properly, or using a torque wrench not suited for the job (wrench too big for the job / too low in the tool's range) etc.

In my experience, damage occurs much more often when amateur mechanics keep tightening cover bolts because the gasket is weeping and they mistakenly assume that tightening the bolts near the leak will fix it. Another is installing cam caps against valve spring pressure and not torqueing all the bolts down evenly in small steps to prevent overloading the threads.

And wearing out cam cap threads in aluminum doesn't take that many cycles of removal and installation.

I've got a set of fairly expensive Precision Instruments dial type torque wrenches. I greatly prefer this type of torque wrench, not a click type, because for one thing they hold their calibration better, and two, you can watch the dial as you approach the torque value. Bending beam torque wrenches are similarly good in these regards. At any rate, on quite a few occasions I've had issues while wrenching on old Japanese motorcycles where the aluminum threads in the engine cases couldn't take the stated fastener torque rating. For guys that can't feel they can watch the dial and see how the needle flatlines as you continue to turn. I suppose that's an endorsement for using a torque wrench, but I still don't for simple fasteners like those on the valve cover.

I use the both beam type and the micrometer set click type. I have used precision torque screwdrivers also - they slip when the torque exceeds the setting. I wish I still had one of those sometimes.