Engine swap L3 and L4

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Re: Engine swap L3 and L4

01 Dec 2015 05:36
#701323
I would have thought that even if the timing is off I would still get some back firing and smoke coming out the exhaust as it ignited the mixture left in the cylinders? I'm not even getting that.

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Re: Engine swap L3 and L4

01 Dec 2015 06:07
#701326
Did you install the centrifugal advance unit to use with the Dyna S?
Ed
Carb O-ring Kits : www.kzrider.com/forum/3-carburetor/61807...-o-ring-kits?start=0

www.kzrider.com/forum/faq-wiki/618026-new-owner-things-to-know

1981 KZ750E2
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/604901...z750e-project-thread

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Re: Engine swap L3 and L4

01 Dec 2015 06:11
#701327
I am using the original advance mechanism from the L3 motor (the one with the springs and markings for timing adjustment) along with the rotor (magnet) provided with the Dynatek kit and their pick up plate.

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Re: Engine swap L3 and L4

01 Dec 2015 06:17 - 01 Dec 2015 06:19
#701328
Are you 100% sure your pickups and coils are connected correctly and you are not 180 degrees out on your timing?. Pull a plug, turn the motor by hand and check that it's sparks at the appropriate time for that coil and plug.
1978 KZ1000A2 Wiseco 1075 kit
1977 KZ650B1
1973 Triumph Tiger TR7V
1968 BSA Victor Special 441
2015 Triumph Thunderbird LT
1980 Suzuki SP400

Old enough to know better, still too young to care
Last edit: 01 Dec 2015 06:19 by redhawk4.

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Re: Engine swap L3 and L4

01 Dec 2015 06:27 - 01 Dec 2015 06:37
#701330
Yep.

Here's what I did (as per the Dynatek people I spoke to)

1. install the automatic advancer ensuring the "F" mark is lined up with the engine case mark, along with the rotor. The rotor magnet is facing to the rear of the bike.

2. remove the #4 cylinder spark plug, reinstall the lead and leave the connected plug outside the engine making sure it is grounded touching the engine.

3. install the pick up plate loosely, rotating it counter clockwise all the way till it stops. Turn on the power.

3. rotate the rotor clockwise all the way till it stops. hold it there.

4. slowly rotate the pick up plate clockwise until the cylinder 4 spark plug sparks.

Done.

The positive to the pick ups are connected to the tail light.
The negative for the pick up 1 and 4 are connected to the negative lead to the coil firing 1 and 4
The negative for the pick up 2 and 3 are connected to the negative lead to the coil firing 2 and 3.

I do get spark for cylinders 3 and 4 (assuming the same would be the for 1 and 2 since they are suing the same coils).

The coil located on the clutch lever side is for cylinders 2 and 3.
the coil located on the Brake lever side is for cylinders 1 and 4.

Sound ok? I'm really stumped.

Thanks
Last edit: 01 Dec 2015 06:37 by SWest.

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Re: Engine swap L3 and L4

01 Dec 2015 06:27 - 01 Dec 2015 06:32
#701331
Sounds like the leads are reversed. Timing is done at full advance on the Dyna S. You then back off the idle screw to get it back down.
Steve
www.dynaonline.com/skins/downloads/instruct/DS2-1_2-2.pdf
Z1b1000 1975 Z1b
kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/598262-kz-...-will-it-live#672882
kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/597654-poser?start=240#704229
Last edit: 01 Dec 2015 06:32 by SWest.

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Re: Engine swap L3 and L4

01 Dec 2015 06:30
#701332
leads reversed?

What do you mean?

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Re: Engine swap L3 and L4

01 Dec 2015 06:33
#701334
Going to the pick ups. I just added a PDF of the instructions in my last post.
Steve
Z1b1000 1975 Z1b
kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/598262-kz-...-will-it-live#672882
kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/597654-poser?start=240#704229

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Re: Engine swap L3 and L4

01 Dec 2015 06:38
#701335
Auditor wrote: Yep.

Here's what I did (as per the Dynatek people I spoke to)

1. install the automatic advancer ensuring the "F" mark is lined up with the engine case mark, along with the rotor. The rotor magnet is facing to the rear of the bike.

2. remove the #4 cylinder spark plug, reinstall the lead and leave the connected plug outside the engine making sure it is grounded touching the engine.

3. install the pick up plate loosely, rotating it counter clockwise all the way till it stops. Turn on the power.

3. rotate the rotor clockwise all the way till it stops. hold it there.

4. slowly rotate the pick up plate clockwise until the cylinder 4 spark plug sparks.

Done.

The positive to the pick ups are connected to the tail light.
The negative for the pick up 1 and 4 are connected to the negative lead to the coil firing 1 and 4
The negative for the pick up 2 and 3 are connected to the negative lead to the coil firing 2 and 3.

I do get spark for cylinders 3 and 4 (assuming the same would be the for 1 and 2 since they are suing the same coils).

The coil located on the clutch lever side is for cylinders 2 and 3.
the coil located on the Brake lever side is for cylinders 1 and 4.

Sound ok? I'm really stumped.

Thanks

Using one coil? Going to the tail light?
Steve
Z1b1000 1975 Z1b
kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/598262-kz-...-will-it-live#672882
kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/597654-poser?start=240#704229

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Re: Engine swap L3 and L4

01 Dec 2015 07:25
#701350
The positive to the pick ups are connected to the tail light.



NOOOOO !! Ignition should come from the Main ignition fuse. Not sure if it would prevent it running but it is still wrong.

I run a z1000 up without any wiring loom fitted but just with a battery, an inline fuse and a few wires. Get a temporary 12v + source from the battery and protect it with a 20A inline fuse.

Apart from the early 70's kz with just one main fuse, later 3 way fuseboxes are head , tail and ignition, You could even remove both head and tail fuses and still run the motor.


I do get spark for cylinders 3 and 4 (assuming the same would be the for 1 and 2 since they are using the same coils).

Getting either inner or outer cylinder firing , 1,4 or 2,3 suggests one coil or pick up is defective.

Getting only 3 and 4 firing means either you have mixed up your plug leads, or as above with mixed up plug leads.

Get new 7mm silicon wires , plugs and non resistor caps to eliminate this part. Does the tacho twitch when you switch it on?

Nice 750, those black wheels really work. Less is more sometimes.
1980 Gpz550 D1, 1981 GPz550 D1. 1982 GPz750R1. 1983 z1000R R2. all four aces

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Re: Engine swap L3 and L4

01 Dec 2015 07:43
#701358
Ah sorry, I didn't' explain myself properly.

Power to the Dynatek is coming from the 12 volt power to the tail light, There's a note about this in step 11 of the Dynatek instructions.
I did a reading with a multimeter and it does read 12 volts.

When I say cylinders 3 and 4 are sparking I'm taking both plugs out, attaching the leads and then letting them hang outside the engine touching the case for grounding. When I attempt to start the engine, both spark plugs spark alternately. I was assuming that since this is happening, cylinders 1 and 2 must be doing the same.

I have the three way fuse box.

I don't have a tach like the OEM part, I have a Vapor installed.

Thanks! I did all the work myself so far.

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Re: Engine swap L3 and L4

01 Dec 2015 08:14 - 01 Dec 2015 08:18
#701362
Just to be clear...

1) Rotate engine and aligning the 1-4 F mark

2) Rotate Dyna S pick up coil plate fully counterclockwise within the slots of the plate (make sure the screws are installed but not tightened)

3) hook up a test light to the LH side pickup trigger and slowly rotate the Dyna S plate clockwise and stop when the light comes on

4) Tighten the screws affixing the Dyna S plate to the engine

The Dyna S instructions specify holding the rotor against the spring and aligning the light to the mark to the right of the F but in my experience this is more trouble than it's worth. If you have the unit timed properly to the F mark without holding the rotor you are fine.

Oh and one other thing, the Dyna S wants coils with between 3-5 ohms primary resistance and the stock KZ coils are something like 1.8-2.8. You might want to consider adding a ballast resistor to increase resistance up a point or so.
Ed
Carb O-ring Kits : www.kzrider.com/forum/3-carburetor/61807...-o-ring-kits?start=0

www.kzrider.com/forum/faq-wiki/618026-new-owner-things-to-know

1981 KZ750E2
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/604901...z750e-project-thread
Last edit: 01 Dec 2015 08:18 by Nessism.

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