No combustion in cylinder 2
- cjaldous
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No combustion in cylinder 2
22 Jun 2015 20:47 - 22 Jun 2015 20:49
I've recently bought a 77 KZ650 and am trying to diagnose what I believe is a non-firing cylinder.
I've observed the following:
Bike seems to idle and run fine, BUT I'm new to motorcycles and to KZs. Perhaps the bike is running weak, but I wouldn't know.
Starts on the first kick when warm, starts easily with the starter when the battery is charged.
Plug 2 was wet with fuel, with no signs of firing. In comparison, plug 1 was showing very rich running.
Lots of gasoline in oil, oil light will illuminate after engine is hot and sitting at idle. (haven't run the bike much since learning this)
Exhaust pipe for cyl 2 does not heat up with the rest of the pipes.
Exhaust output for 1&2 feels weaker than 3&4.
Decent spark on plug 2.
I've done the following.
1. Cold and hot compression test. Cylinder 1 reads 50ish psi on the 1st puff, 120 with throttle closed , 150 with it open. after 10 kicks.
2. Leak down test. Cylinder 2 seemingly tested no different than cylinder 1. I admit this test was a bit rushed, but no obvious issues.
3. The dyna coil for cyinder 2-3 measured 400k - 1M on the secondary. I replaced it with a new, identical 3 ohm dyna coil.
4. Ignition timing seemed advanced. I retarded it but haven't run the bike much since.
5. New plug in cyl 2, replaced plug wire with known good wire.
6. Oil change with Valvoline JASO MA 10W40.
I'm going to try the following next:
1. Charge battery. Redo compression test with starter.
2. Leak down test again.
3. Check valve clearances.
What else? Check float in carb 2?
I've observed the following:
Bike seems to idle and run fine, BUT I'm new to motorcycles and to KZs. Perhaps the bike is running weak, but I wouldn't know.
Starts on the first kick when warm, starts easily with the starter when the battery is charged.
Plug 2 was wet with fuel, with no signs of firing. In comparison, plug 1 was showing very rich running.
Lots of gasoline in oil, oil light will illuminate after engine is hot and sitting at idle. (haven't run the bike much since learning this)
Exhaust pipe for cyl 2 does not heat up with the rest of the pipes.
Exhaust output for 1&2 feels weaker than 3&4.
Decent spark on plug 2.
I've done the following.
1. Cold and hot compression test. Cylinder 1 reads 50ish psi on the 1st puff, 120 with throttle closed , 150 with it open. after 10 kicks.
2. Leak down test. Cylinder 2 seemingly tested no different than cylinder 1. I admit this test was a bit rushed, but no obvious issues.
3. The dyna coil for cyinder 2-3 measured 400k - 1M on the secondary. I replaced it with a new, identical 3 ohm dyna coil.
4. Ignition timing seemed advanced. I retarded it but haven't run the bike much since.
5. New plug in cyl 2, replaced plug wire with known good wire.
6. Oil change with Valvoline JASO MA 10W40.
I'm going to try the following next:
1. Charge battery. Redo compression test with starter.
2. Leak down test again.
3. Check valve clearances.
What else? Check float in carb 2?
1977 KZ650B
Last edit: 22 Jun 2015 20:49 by cjaldous.
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- SWest
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Re: No combustion in cylinder 2
22 Jun 2015 21:32
Battery and valves. They don't get adjusted because it takes work and money. Common issue.
Steve
Steve
Z1b1000 1975 Z1b
kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/598262-kz-...-will-it-live#672882
kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/597654-poser?start=240#704229
kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/598262-kz-...-will-it-live#672882
kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/597654-poser?start=240#704229
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- Tyler
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Re: No combustion in cylinder 2
22 Jun 2015 21:53 - 22 Jun 2015 21:54
Factory air box? or pod filters? Id say make sure the carbs are squared away. Ignition pairs 1 and 4 and 2 and 3. Once cylinder leads me to think its in the carb if you've got compression.
If I knew what I was doing all the time life wouldn't be any fun.
'80 KZ650 E 700cc, dyna ignition and coils, frame up restoration, daily driver
'81 KZ1300 A3 full restoration, custom big bore pistons, 1400cc 6 cylinder super bike
"77 KZ650 B1 - Barn Find, work in progeress
"74 Yamaha DT 400 Enduro
'80 KZ650 E 700cc, dyna ignition and coils, frame up restoration, daily driver
'81 KZ1300 A3 full restoration, custom big bore pistons, 1400cc 6 cylinder super bike
"77 KZ650 B1 - Barn Find, work in progeress
"74 Yamaha DT 400 Enduro
Last edit: 22 Jun 2015 21:54 by Tyler.
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- Tyrell Corp
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Re: No combustion in cylinder 2
23 Jun 2015 03:57
I'd check your float fuel levels and thoroughly clean your carbs out. Seems to point to a carb issues, plus the fuel in the oil problem.
Then new 7mm copper HT wire and non resistor plug caps, plus clean up the coil terminals and check for tightness. Try swapping 2 and 3 plug wires, if the problem transfers to the other pot then assume ignition, otherwise fuelling. These ignitions run a 'wasted spark', so 1 and 4 fire together, just as 2 and 3 do. The extra spark on the exhaust stroke being wasted.
Then new 7mm copper HT wire and non resistor plug caps, plus clean up the coil terminals and check for tightness. Try swapping 2 and 3 plug wires, if the problem transfers to the other pot then assume ignition, otherwise fuelling. These ignitions run a 'wasted spark', so 1 and 4 fire together, just as 2 and 3 do. The extra spark on the exhaust stroke being wasted.
1980 Gpz550 D1, 1981 GPz550 D1. 1982 GPz750R1. 1983 z1000R R2. all four aces
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- Nessism
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Re: No combustion in cylinder 2
23 Jun 2015 07:30 - 23 Jun 2015 07:31
You got the order wrong on the checks. The valves should be done before checking leak down or compression. Lots of idiot previous owners ride bikes into the ground because of neglected maintenance. Don't assume anything, and you can't diagnose running problems on a bike that has neglected maintenance so take care of things first off.
Ed
Carb O-ring Kits : www.kzrider.com/forum/3-carburetor/61807...-o-ring-kits?start=0
www.kzrider.com/forum/faq-wiki/618026-new-owner-things-to-know
1981 KZ750E2
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/604901...z750e-project-thread
Carb O-ring Kits : www.kzrider.com/forum/3-carburetor/61807...-o-ring-kits?start=0
www.kzrider.com/forum/faq-wiki/618026-new-owner-things-to-know
1981 KZ750E2
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/604901...z750e-project-thread
Last edit: 23 Jun 2015 07:31 by Nessism.
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- cjaldous
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Re: No combustion in cylinder 2
23 Jun 2015 08:24
Thanks all!
Swest: I will check clearances and charge the battery tonight.
Tyler: I've got pod filters, and I've read that usually requires a re-jet. I have no idea if that was done.
Tryell: I'll take off the carbs and check the float level.
Ness: Thanks. I agree. I was trying the easier stuff first.
If the PO swapped to pod filters without re-jetting would that cause rich or lean running?
Swest: I will check clearances and charge the battery tonight.
Tyler: I've got pod filters, and I've read that usually requires a re-jet. I have no idea if that was done.
Tryell: I'll take off the carbs and check the float level.
Ness: Thanks. I agree. I was trying the easier stuff first.
If the PO swapped to pod filters without re-jetting would that cause rich or lean running?
1977 KZ650B
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- gd4now
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Re: No combustion in cylinder 2
23 Jun 2015 13:23
Pods without jet changes would create a lean mix.
1977 KZ650 B1
Pods and Denco header
OLD KAW OWNERS SMILE ALOT
Pods and Denco header
OLD KAW OWNERS SMILE ALOT
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- TexasKZ
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Re: No combustion in cylinder 2
23 Jun 2015 16:13
There is no need to take the carbs off to check the fuel level. Float height is irrelevant. Fuel level is important and should be checked using the clear tube method. It is clearly described in the Kawasaki Factory Service Manual. It has also been described in several discussion threads in this forum. The search box should be able to find one.
1982 KZ1000 LTD parts donor
1981 KZ1000 LTD awaiting resurrection
2000 ZRX1100 not ridden enough
www.kzrider.com/11-projects/620336-anoth...uild-thread?start=24
1981 KZ1000 LTD awaiting resurrection
2000 ZRX1100 not ridden enough
www.kzrider.com/11-projects/620336-anoth...uild-thread?start=24
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Re: No combustion in cylinder 2
23 Jun 2015 19:13
TexasKZ +1
1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)
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- cjaldous
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Re: No combustion in cylinder 2
23 Jun 2015 22:19
Thanks Tex. I noticed that in the FSM too.
I jammed a plastic T into the hole, plugged one end, and used some clear pvc for the other.
The fuel level seemed ok. It was a bit difficult, reading between the carbs, but the level seemed ok.
I checked the valves and all were between 0.1 to 0.15mm. I also re-tightened the chain tensioner.
Also, I realized what I was calling cylinder 2 is actually cylinder 3. Doh!
After charging the battery I checked that each coil was turning on, and that the battery voltage didn't drop much.
it started just fine and cylinder 3's exhaust started getting hot! And the plug showed signs of good combustion.
I was about to take it for a test ride and found that the headlight wouldn't turn on.
The fuse had blown, and I noticed the 20amp main fuse had continuity but looked like it got toasty.
After replacing the headlight fuse, the battery was so low that the starter wouldn't turn.
I'm going to get replacement fuses, charge the battery and try again. I might have some electrical gremlins........
The PO put on LED signals, and placed a resistor from the flasher to ground. So I'm not sure what I can trust of his wiring.....
Anyway! Thanks all. I think I'm very close.
I jammed a plastic T into the hole, plugged one end, and used some clear pvc for the other.
The fuel level seemed ok. It was a bit difficult, reading between the carbs, but the level seemed ok.
I checked the valves and all were between 0.1 to 0.15mm. I also re-tightened the chain tensioner.
Also, I realized what I was calling cylinder 2 is actually cylinder 3. Doh!
After charging the battery I checked that each coil was turning on, and that the battery voltage didn't drop much.
it started just fine and cylinder 3's exhaust started getting hot! And the plug showed signs of good combustion.
I was about to take it for a test ride and found that the headlight wouldn't turn on.
The fuse had blown, and I noticed the 20amp main fuse had continuity but looked like it got toasty.
After replacing the headlight fuse, the battery was so low that the starter wouldn't turn.
I'm going to get replacement fuses, charge the battery and try again. I might have some electrical gremlins........
The PO put on LED signals, and placed a resistor from the flasher to ground. So I'm not sure what I can trust of his wiring.....
Anyway! Thanks all. I think I'm very close.

1977 KZ650B
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