No combustion in cylinder 2

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22 Jun 2015 20:47 - 22 Jun 2015 20:49 #677826 by cjaldous
No combustion in cylinder 2 was created by cjaldous
I've recently bought a 77 KZ650 and am trying to diagnose what I believe is a non-firing cylinder.

I've observed the following:

Bike seems to idle and run fine, BUT I'm new to motorcycles and to KZs. Perhaps the bike is running weak, but I wouldn't know.
Starts on the first kick when warm, starts easily with the starter when the battery is charged.
Plug 2 was wet with fuel, with no signs of firing. In comparison, plug 1 was showing very rich running.
Lots of gasoline in oil, oil light will illuminate after engine is hot and sitting at idle. (haven't run the bike much since learning this)
Exhaust pipe for cyl 2 does not heat up with the rest of the pipes.
Exhaust output for 1&2 feels weaker than 3&4.
Decent spark on plug 2.

I've done the following.

1. Cold and hot compression test. Cylinder 1 reads 50ish psi on the 1st puff, 120 with throttle closed , 150 with it open. after 10 kicks.
2. Leak down test. Cylinder 2 seemingly tested no different than cylinder 1. I admit this test was a bit rushed, but no obvious issues.
3. The dyna coil for cyinder 2-3 measured 400k - 1M on the secondary. I replaced it with a new, identical 3 ohm dyna coil.
4. Ignition timing seemed advanced. I retarded it but haven't run the bike much since.
5. New plug in cyl 2, replaced plug wire with known good wire.
6. Oil change with Valvoline JASO MA 10W40.

I'm going to try the following next:

1. Charge battery. Redo compression test with starter.
2. Leak down test again.
3. Check valve clearances.

What else? Check float in carb 2?

1977 KZ650B
Last edit: 22 Jun 2015 20:49 by cjaldous.

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  • SWest
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22 Jun 2015 21:32 #677832 by SWest
Replied by SWest on topic No combustion in cylinder 2
Battery and valves. They don't get adjusted because it takes work and money. Common issue.
Steve

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22 Jun 2015 21:53 - 22 Jun 2015 21:54 #677835 by Tyler
Replied by Tyler on topic No combustion in cylinder 2
Factory air box? or pod filters? Id say make sure the carbs are squared away. Ignition pairs 1 and 4 and 2 and 3. Once cylinder leads me to think its in the carb if you've got compression.

If I knew what I was doing all the time life wouldn't be any fun.

'80 KZ650 E 700cc, dyna ignition and coils, frame up restoration, daily driver
'81 KZ1300 A3 full restoration, custom big bore pistons, 1400cc 6 cylinder super bike
"77 KZ650 B1 - Barn Find, work in progeress
"74 Yamaha DT 400 Enduro
Last edit: 22 Jun 2015 21:54 by Tyler.

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23 Jun 2015 03:57 #677848 by Tyrell Corp
Replied by Tyrell Corp on topic No combustion in cylinder 2
I'd check your float fuel levels and thoroughly clean your carbs out. Seems to point to a carb issues, plus the fuel in the oil problem.

Then new 7mm copper HT wire and non resistor plug caps, plus clean up the coil terminals and check for tightness. Try swapping 2 and 3 plug wires, if the problem transfers to the other pot then assume ignition, otherwise fuelling. These ignitions run a 'wasted spark', so 1 and 4 fire together, just as 2 and 3 do. The extra spark on the exhaust stroke being wasted.

1980 Gpz550 D1, 1981 GPz550 D1. 1982 GPz750R1. 1983 z1000R R2. all four aces

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23 Jun 2015 07:30 - 23 Jun 2015 07:31 #677871 by Nessism
Replied by Nessism on topic No combustion in cylinder 2
You got the order wrong on the checks. The valves should be done before checking leak down or compression. Lots of idiot previous owners ride bikes into the ground because of neglected maintenance. Don't assume anything, and you can't diagnose running problems on a bike that has neglected maintenance so take care of things first off.
Last edit: 23 Jun 2015 07:31 by Nessism.

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23 Jun 2015 08:24 #677879 by cjaldous
Replied by cjaldous on topic No combustion in cylinder 2
Thanks all!

Swest: I will check clearances and charge the battery tonight.
Tyler: I've got pod filters, and I've read that usually requires a re-jet. I have no idea if that was done.
Tryell: I'll take off the carbs and check the float level.
Ness: Thanks. I agree. I was trying the easier stuff first.

If the PO swapped to pod filters without re-jetting would that cause rich or lean running?

1977 KZ650B

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  • gd4now
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23 Jun 2015 13:23 #677937 by gd4now
Replied by gd4now on topic No combustion in cylinder 2
Pods without jet changes would create a lean mix.

1977 KZ650 B1
Pods and Denco header


OLD KAW OWNERS SMILE ALOT

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23 Jun 2015 16:13 #677974 by TexasKZ
Replied by TexasKZ on topic No combustion in cylinder 2
There is no need to take the carbs off to check the fuel level. Float height is irrelevant. Fuel level is important and should be checked using the clear tube method. It is clearly described in the Kawasaki Factory Service Manual. It has also been described in several discussion threads in this forum. The search box should be able to find one.

1982 KZ1000 LTD parts donor
1981 KZ1000 LTD awaiting resurrection
2000 ZRX1100 not ridden enough
The following user(s) said Thank You: 650ed

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23 Jun 2015 19:13 #678010 by 650ed
Replied by 650ed on topic No combustion in cylinder 2
TexasKZ +1

1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)

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23 Jun 2015 22:19 #678041 by cjaldous
Replied by cjaldous on topic No combustion in cylinder 2
Thanks Tex. I noticed that in the FSM too.

I jammed a plastic T into the hole, plugged one end, and used some clear pvc for the other.
The fuel level seemed ok. It was a bit difficult, reading between the carbs, but the level seemed ok.

I checked the valves and all were between 0.1 to 0.15mm. I also re-tightened the chain tensioner.
Also, I realized what I was calling cylinder 2 is actually cylinder 3. Doh!

After charging the battery I checked that each coil was turning on, and that the battery voltage didn't drop much.
it started just fine and cylinder 3's exhaust started getting hot! And the plug showed signs of good combustion.

I was about to take it for a test ride and found that the headlight wouldn't turn on.
The fuse had blown, and I noticed the 20amp main fuse had continuity but looked like it got toasty.
After replacing the headlight fuse, the battery was so low that the starter wouldn't turn.

I'm going to get replacement fuses, charge the battery and try again. I might have some electrical gremlins........
The PO put on LED signals, and placed a resistor from the flasher to ground. So I'm not sure what I can trust of his wiring.....

Anyway! Thanks all. I think I'm very close. :)

1977 KZ650B

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