Battery, Starter or Starter Clutch???

I went out for a ride last week. The temperature was in the 30s. My bike, 1983 kz550 m1, started just fine. I let it warm up for 5-10 minutes. I only took it out for a few miles. I've been doing that lately just to keep the oil moving and gas flowing. On this last ride, it acted like it was starving for fuel. I was on reserve too. So I pulled over and checked my level. I added half a gallon to get home, which was only about a quarter mile to home. But my bike didn't start up after that. Instead, it sounded like the battery was struggling to spin the starter. I ended up pushing it home.

I went ahead and put the battery back on charge while I cleaned the starter. Everything looked fine. It just had the normal build up of soot. I tried starting the bike again with no success. I took the battery to get tested. It passed with 12.7 volts. So I'm now at a stump. I took a video of the sound.


Any ideas on what it could be? The bike is ready for an oil change and tune up. And one more thing, my starter was hot to the touch when I pulled over. Normal?

Thanks, guys.

to me, it sounds like the starter clutch is not engaging/slipping .......your starter is spinning but still the engine doesn't turn over. :blink:

turboking wrote: to me, it sounds like the starter clutch is not engaging/slipping .......your starter is spinning but still the engine doesn't turn over. :blink:

That's exactly what it sounds like to me. Might be a good time to collect the necessary starter clutch replacement parts. Ed

I was thinking the same. Thanks guys. Time to work on my daily driver.

Ok, so I went back and rechecked everything to make sure I don't spend unnecessary money while money is tight. I recharged the battery and had it tested. It passed with 206 cold cranking amps. I cleaned the started again just for peace of mind. Battery cables are good. The above video is from after re-checking everything.

So do you guys still think that it is the starter clutch? If so, I have a few questions.
Am I replacing the whole clutch assembly? According to partzilla, that's part number 13193. Or am I replacing the pins, springs, and rollers only? (Part numbers 92043, 92081, 92122) I did a search on Z1, since that seems to be the best site to find parts. Two products came up, ZKA22-001 and ZKA22-004. But none list the 1983 KZ550-M1 in their description. Any advice there?

I need to go back and get ahold of my old mechanic's manual. But from I read, to change the starter clutch, I'll have to drop the oil pan. Is that right? If so, am I also replacing the oil pan gasket (part 11009)? And I noticed that my oil did get contaminated with a little gas too. One of my carbs was stuck open. So I'll change the oil and filter as well. I already fixed the carb situation. I'll clean it again once it's back ready to run.

Has anyone changed out their starter clutch on the same bike? What's the time frame on work like that? All this happened at a bad time. I was ready to move out to San Antonio. My KZ is my daily driver, besides my mountain bike. So I need to do this soon. I miss my rides out and about. I've taken my bike on a two day - 400 mile ride. She did great. I need to do that again soon!

Anyway, thank you guys for the help and advice.

Lucas

you have to examine it ...usually it's just the pins, springs and rollers.......... unless the surface is badly scored

The second video doesn't sound like a slipping starter clutch to me. Notice in the very beginning of the first video when you hit the starter button it sounds like something is spinning quite fast, but that the engine is not turning over. When the starter clutch slips that happens. However, in the second video I don't hear it spin fast. It sounds like the motor is turning over but only slowly. Here's a suggestion. Just to positively ensure it is not a battery issue you can hook up cables to another battery, like a car battery, BUT DO NOT HAVE THE OTHER VEHICLE'S ENGINE RUNNING while the cables are hooked up. If the other vehicle's engine is running you can wreck the bike's electrical system. Also, do not hook a charger to it and try to start it as that can also harm things. If the engine turns over fast when the bike is attached to a different battery there may be a problem with the bike's battery even though it seemed to check out ok, or there may be an issue with a cable or the starter motor itself. If the starter sounds like it spins very fast without turning over the engine there probably is a starter clutch problem. Ed

What type of engine oil are you using? If it's one that has "Friction Modifiers" in it, this could be why the starter clutch is slipping. Read this:

Best Oils To Use In Your Bike (Just My Opinion)

Engine oil : The commercial grade oils are clearly superior to the mass market oils. For the best protection in your bike or car, use Shell Rotella Synthetic, available at Wal-Mart in blue containers . For the best petroleum oil you can buy, get Shell Rotella T, Mobil Delvac 1300, or Chevron Delo 400, available at any auto parts store. On the back of most oil cans is a circular stamp with the certification. Avoid oils that say "energy conserving" in the bottom half of the donut. These oils contain friction modifier additives that could cause clutch slipping over time. All XXw-20 and XXw-30 oils are energy conserving, and should not be used in your motorcycle. Don't buy any oil additives like STP or Slick-50. Here's several listings on all about oil justifying these conclusions.

The Recommended Synthetic Oils :

Shell Rotella Synthetic
5w-40 Delvac 1 Synthetic
5w-40 Mobil-1 SUV/Truck Synthetic
5w-40 AMSOil AMF Synthetic (pricey, but it’s your money)
10w-40 Golden Spectro Synthetic
10w-50 Motul 5100 Synthetic
10w-40 Mobil-1 Synthetic
15w-50 Mobil-1 MX4T Synthetic

The best synthetics are: (in no particular order)

Shell Rotella-T Synthetic 5w-40 (blue container, not white), gallon at Wal-Mart.
Mobil Delvac-1 5w-40 (grey container, not black), gallon at Petro stations, gallon at Farm and Fleet.
Mobil-1 SUV 5w-40, qt anywhere.
AMSOil AMF 10w-40 synthetic motorcycle oil. (again, pricey)
Golden Spectro Supreme, (no price).
Motul 5100 Ester, (no price).

Mobil-1 automotive oils all contain small amounts of moly - about 100 to 200 ppm. This can cause clutch slippage in some motorcycles. I've only heard of this being a problem in Honda Shadows.

Premium universal oils like Shell ROTELLA T Multigrade are formulated for heavy-duty performance, and your bike engine has some heavy-duty challenges for oil. For optimum performance, be sure your oil is up to the challenge.

JASO OIL SPECS:
Find an oil that shows the JASO-MA rating on the bottle; there are plenty of them available both dino and synthetic.

The ingredients in oils have changed over the years. For example, today's Castrol GTX oil (and pretty much all other AUTOMOBILE oil) is not the same as it was in the 1980's. Back then it worked great in KZ bikes. But, things have changed. Early AUTOMOBILE oils contained zinc phosphorus compounds (ZDDP) to protect engines from metal to metal contact. This was good for engines, but it was found to be destructive to catalytic converters. Consequently, in AUTOMOBILE oils ZDDP was virtually eliminated and replaced with different chemistry generically referred to as "Friction Modifiers."

These work fine and offer good protection for normal AUTOMOBILE engines. However, today's AUTOMOBILE oil "Friction Modifiers" are destructive to wet clutches. KZ bikes (and many other brands) have wet clutches. As a result of these oil chemistry changes a distinction needed to be made between those oils which are suitable for wet clutches and those which are not.

That distinction was documented by the Japanese Engine Oil Standards Implementation Panel (JASO). JASO developed a number of different oil specifications for different applications. The specifications that apply to 4 stroke motorcycles fall under the "4T Specifications." Within the 4T specifications the JASO MA class oils are specifically formulated for 4 stroke motorcycles with wet clutches.

Using oils that are not designated as meeting the JASO-MA standard may be destructive to KZ clutches. Here's a link that may be helpful:

JASO Oil Specifications - oilspecifications.org

MFolks wrote: What type of engine oil are you using? If it's one that has "Friction Modifiers" in it, this could be why the starter clutch is slipping.

I use Valvoline 4 stroke oil for wet clutch bikes from Wal Mart, But your post makes me ask this, which I was wondering too: Could the gas contamination in the oil prevent my starter clutch to spin? Does anyone think changing the oil and filter would fix this problem?

And again, for the people who have done this, how hard is it to get to the clutch? I've seen a step by step for a KZ500C. But mine is shaft driven. I don't know if it would be the same.

Thanks.
Lucas

LuckyLucOnBass wrote: I use Valvoline 4 stroke oil for wet clutch bikes from Wal Mart, But your post makes me ask this, which I was wondering too: Could the gas contamination in the oil prevent my starter clutch to spin? Does anyone think changing the oil and filter would fix this problem?


Thanks.
Lucas

Don't thinks so, but the gas will wear out the rings and bearings a lot faster than normal along with increased cylinder wear if left untreated.

Here are a few things that I've done:
I did jump my battery to my truck's battery. It definitely sounded like the motor was turning normally. I did notice my starter got hot to the touch. Is that normal?

I put my battery back on the tender overnight. The next day, I tried starting the bike as normal. It made the same struggling sound. I pulled out the plugs, went through the starter again and tried it. The video is embedded below. Doesn't that sound normal? I covered each plug hole with a finger. I definitely had compression and again, the motor was turning normally. So I thought I was almost back to road worthy. I put the plugs in and tried starting the bike and..... nothing.... just the same struggling sound. So,... it could be my battery, which tested ok three times already. So do we all agree to buy a new battery?

My plan today was go buy a new battery. Before I did, I turned the key and hit the start... "click" "click" "click" ... my solenoid clicked only. I pulled out the battery and pulled the starter. I jumped my battery to my starter and got nothing. Definitely need a new battery, huh? So I take off to my powersports store and it is closed. Ugh!!!! Haha. It gets worse.

So I'm driving home in my GMC Sierra, then my rear, driver's side brake line blows!!!! I was so close to home that I had someone follow me home.That'll be an easy fix at least.



We'll see what a new battery does for me.
Lucas

Ok, so I need to replace a part of my starter. I just can't find the part number. It's the plastic cup that sits in the starter body and holds the positive brushes in place. I opened my starter, again, and noticed that the plastic was melted from, I guess, shorting out. My starter spins smoothly by hand. But when jumped to a battery, it does not spin.

I haven't bought my new battery yet. I guess going from a Duralast to a Yuasa will be an upgrade. I just need to order it.

So my plan of action now:
1. Replace the plastic cup and also install new brushes from a rebuild kit.
2. Order a Yuasa battery.
3. Hope and pray that that solves this annoying problem.
If not, then 4. start drinking alcohol again.