KZ400 oil/gas coming from breather!! HELP

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14 May 2013 00:05 #587256 by Juicyk
Hey guys new to the forum already loving it.
I recently picked up a 76 kz400, and today i got the carbs dialed in damn near perfect. Too her out on a ride and noticed that the hose on the breather was puking oil and gas. It seamed strange to me because it runs great and no smoke of any kind, good idea, and great throttle response.

Anyone ever have this issue before?

Thanks
-Kevin

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14 May 2013 00:16 #587258 by 650ed
Replied by 650ed on topic KZ400 oil/gas coming from breather!! HELP
I can't imagine gas coming out of the breather! Two things you should check -

Did you overfill the oil? How did you check the oil level when topping it off (not on the side stand I hope)? Filling the oil above the top line in the site glass can cause oil to blow out of breather.

If it really does smell like gas coming from breather there is a another possibility - your carbs may be overflowing and dumping fuel through the cylinders into the crankcase. This can cause the oil level to rise too high because of the additional liquid (gas) and that could blow out of the breather and would smell like gas. Pull a little oil from the crankcase and give it the sniff test. If it smells like gas don't run the engine until you fix the carb overflow problem. Ed

1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)

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14 May 2013 09:17 - 14 May 2013 09:17 #587299 by Juicyk
Replied by Juicyk on topic KZ400 oil/gas coming from breather!! HELP

650ed wrote: I can't imagine gas coming out of the breather! Two things you should check -

Did you overfill the oil? How did you check the oil level when topping it off (not on the side stand I hope)? Filling the oil above the top line in the site glass can cause oil to blow out of breather.

If it really does smell like gas coming from breather there is a another possibility - your carbs may be overflowing and dumping fuel through the cylinders into the crankcase. This can cause the oil level to rise too high because of the additional liquid (gas) and that could blow out of the breather and would smell like gas. Pull a little oil from the crankcase and give it the sniff test. If it smells like gas don't run the engine until you fix the carb overflow problem. Ed



Thanks for the advice! It does smell like gas and acts like it with the lighter test haha. Just a quick follow up question on the subject and this maybe a complete novice question. Wouldn't the overflowing of the carbs lead to it running terribly or not at all?

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Last edit: 14 May 2013 09:17 by Juicyk.

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14 May 2013 09:27 #587302 by Juicyk
Replied by Juicyk on topic KZ400 oil/gas coming from breather!! HELP
I'm sure everyone here already knows about this site, but it seems to be one of the better resources for finding parts for the old KZs that Iv'e run across.

www.siriusconinc.com

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14 May 2013 11:19 #587323 by 650ed
Replied by 650ed on topic KZ400 oil/gas coming from breather!! HELP

Juicyk wrote:
Thanks for the advice! It does smell like gas and acts like it with the lighter test haha. Just a quick follow up question on the subject and this maybe a complete novice question. Wouldn't the overflowing of the carbs lead to it running terribly or not at all?


If they are overflowing at a great rate it probably would affect the running. However, if they are overflowing at a gradual rate 7x24 they could be contaminating the motor oil and raising the oil level while it is parked overnight.

Overflow typically is the result of 1 or more of the following problems.

Remember – NO SMOKING or other activities that could ignite the fuel while working on carbs!

The float valve is not sealing
. This may be (and probably is) just a matter of some minor dirt in the float valve and is very simple to remedy and can be done with the carbs still on the bike. Turn off fuel; drain carb by loosening big brass screw near bottom; and remove the 4 little screws on the bottom of the carb bowl. This will enable you to remove the carb bowl. You will then see the float. If you carefully remove the float you will see a stubby little needle that mates with a brass orifice; together, these two pieces are the float valve. Assuming there is no obvious damage to the needle or seat, use a Q-tip and some carb cleaner to clean the seat of the orifice and the needle. Be careful not to bend the tang that is attached to the float. This tang is the piece that the bottom of the float valve needle rests upon, and it determines the fuel level in the bowl, so bending it will change the fuel level. With the float valve cleaned it should no longer leak. To prevent a reoccurrence a quality inline fuel filter should be installed between the fuel tank and carbs. If there was damage the needle and seat should be replaced as a set; they are available.

The brass overflow tube inside the carb bowl is damaged. When you remove the carb bowl you will see a brass tube attached inside and rising toward the top of the bowl. This is the overflow tube and it leads directly to the overflow nipple on the bottom of the carb. Normally, the fuel level within the bowl rises somewhat close to the top of this tube. If the tube becomes cracked or separates from the bottom of the carb bowl fuel will flow through it and out through the overflow hose. Checking the condition of the tube is very easy after you have removed the carb bowl from the carb. Simply hold the bowl level and fill it up near the top of the tube with water of alcohol and see if it leaks. If it does the best remedy is to replace it although some folks have found creative ways to repair them.

The fuel level is set too high
. This condition occurs when someone has bent the float tang as mentioned above. This condition can be checked using what is referred to as the “clear tube test.” The test involves attaching one end of a clear piece of flexible tubing to the carb drain hole and holding the other end of the tube above the bowl/carb joint. When the fuel is turned on it should rise in the tube to a level 2.5 – 4.5 mm below the bowl/carb joint. If the fuel rises higher than that level it may run into the cylinders or over the upper end of the brass overflow inside the carb bowl (mentioned above) in which case it will run out the overflow hose. This condition is corrected by removing the float and gently bending the tang to raise the float valve needle position. Doing this may take several tries before achieving the desired fuel level.

Correcting each of these three conditions involves removing the carb bowl. This task can be made easier if a short screwdriver bit is used, and depending on which carb you are fixing a mirror may help you locate the screws on the bottom of the carb bowl. Also, it is not a bad idea to have a new carb bowl gasket available in case the old gasket is damaged while removing the carb bowl. Ed

1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)
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14 May 2013 11:40 #587333 by Juicyk
Replied by Juicyk on topic KZ400 oil/gas coming from breather!! HELP
Awesome I'll have to try them out soon as I'm out of the office this evening. I'm glad you said something I was ready to just buy a carb kit and call it a day till they showed up haha.
I think you may be right about it being dirty. I checked the tank last night and its got rust on the inside of it.

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14 May 2013 11:46 #587335 by 650ed
Replied by 650ed on topic KZ400 oil/gas coming from breather!! HELP
If there's any rust in the tank you should add a fuel filter to the fuel line. The little screen(s) on the petcock will be big ole chunks out of the carbs but don't filter the very fine stuff very well. Ed

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14 May 2013 11:58 #587340 by Juicyk
Replied by Juicyk on topic KZ400 oil/gas coming from breather!! HELP

650ed wrote: If there's any rust in the tank you should add a fuel filter to the fuel line. The little screen(s) on the petcock will be big ole chunks out of the carbs but don't filter the very fine stuff very well. Ed


solid I hope autozone carries something I can use I'm ready to ride!!

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16 May 2013 14:35 #587748 by Juicyk
Replied by Juicyk on topic KZ400 oil/gas coming from breather!! HELP
Ok so I added the inline fuel filter and cleaned the needle and seas along with everything in the bowls. This is what one of them looked like… [img size=500px] lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Xd-kiXgVZmo/U...LgirM/s640/photo.JPG [/img]

It ran fine, just with a slightly sporadic idle, with no gas or oil out of the breather. I took it on a little trip around the block and it had a small bit of oil in a catch can I threw on. Then parked and waited let it idle, nothing. A few hours later I took it out and ripped it down the street and it started to pour out of the breather again.
I noticed when installing the filter that the petcock doesn't seem to be stock. it has two hoses coming out one goes to the carbs the other has been blocked by the previous owner. It also doesn't seem to stop the gas no matter what its set too. Might either of those things cause the breather issue?
Either way tonight I'll change the oil just in case there was just too much fluid in the engine from before.

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16 May 2013 15:35 #587760 by 650ed
Replied by 650ed on topic KZ400 oil/gas coming from breather!! HELP
You might want to post a picture of the petcock; maybe someone can identify it. Ed

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16 May 2013 15:50 - 16 May 2013 15:52 #587766 by Juicyk
Replied by Juicyk on topic KZ400 oil/gas coming from breather!! HELP

650ed wrote: You might want to post a picture of the petcock; maybe someone can identify it. Ed


I've got a video of a walk around sort of thing that you can see the petcock. Its processing at the moment but should be on youtube shortly and I'll link you guys.
Thanks

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Last edit: 16 May 2013 15:52 by Juicyk.

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16 May 2013 15:59 #587768 by Juicyk
Replied by Juicyk on topic KZ400 oil/gas coming from breather!! HELP
Here's the link to the video. You can see it at about 7 seconds in.

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